Robert Quinn & Restructuring

[8to12]

Could someone with vast Salary Cap knowledge please explain the Cap details for the Rams if Robert Quinn's salary was to be restructured this off season? I have looked it at on Overthecap.com and when selecting "restructure" for Quuinn's contract, the results for 2018 and 2019 seem too good to be true ; not sure they're offering all of the information.

Thank you in advance.....

 

[OldSchool]

It's really impossible to say, they could do many different things with it. The idea though with a restructure is to lower the cap hit this year and give him guaranteed money. You clear some cap room now and have to pay him later whether he's producing then or not. If cap space is needed it's something that could happen. I'd prefer not to though but that's just me.

 

[TSFH Fan]

OTC doesn't always recalculate for me when I switch back and forth, but I'll give it a shot:

Using the OTC numbers, before any restructure, the Rams can cut Quinn before the 2019 season without any dead money under the cap. (Approx. 955k hit for a cut before the 2018 season).

An OTC maximum restructure in 2018 reduces Quinn's 2018 cap number from about 12.4 M to about 7.1M but increases the 2019 cap hit from about 12.9M to about 18.2M. This hypothetical restructure also means that cutting Quinn before the 2019 season will cost the Rams about 5.3M in dead cap space. That's 5.3M more than before the restructure.

I severely doubt Quinn can legally up his performance in 2018 to be worth 18.2M in 2019. Cheers to those who disagree.

So a 2018 restructure (1) gets the Rams more cap space in 2018 at the cost of (2) a ridiculous cap hit for 2019; and (3) dings the Rams for a sizable dead cap if/when they cut Quinn before the 2019 season (because there's no way he'll be worth a 18.2M cap hit).

Of course, YMMV.

 

[Corbin]

Thinking if we restructure Quinn or Tavon it sure won't be to offset money, it will be to lower the cap hits. Guarantee they are working on that this off season because that's what helps us adding another piece or two to go after that Lombardi.

 

[nighttrain]

Thinking if we restructure Quinn or Tavon it sure won't be to offset money, it will be to lower the cap hits. Guarantee they are working on that this off season because that's what helps us adding another piece or two to go after that Lombardi.

i dont know about restructure, but we can and should cut Tavon and save three mil is it or more? He has no position on the current team.
train

 

[Corbin]

i dont know about restructure, but we can and should cut Tavon and save three mil is it or more? He has no position on the current team.
train

I disagree on cutting Tavon. The amount we save is only 3 mill for cutting him and no way we go into FA/Draft/OTA's etc. without Demoff trying to drop that cap hit and fix that contract to a fitting amount that he would get elsewhere in the league.

I personally think Tavon's contract after restructure would be worth it on the extra guy he takes up being on the field meaning that Todd Gurley has one guy and maybe 2 guys he doesn't have to worry about. That for me is worth having him on the field.

And also consider this, almost every game we lost last year (5 of 6) was because we didn't do two things. Utilize Gurley, and Tavon had very little snaps on O. Regardless if it shows up on the stat sheet Tavon does create opportunities/space for the other players. That's a statistical fact, we just really to need fix the cap amount/hit of his contract which I'm damn certain they (demoff/Snead) are going to address.

 

[nighttrain]

draft a running back that's fast with one of our 6th rounders, can do and much better player
train

 

[TSFH Fan]

As an aside, and not saying anyone on this board does it, so more for the benefit of the lurkers:

Some people use the term "restructure" in the more vernacular sense to refer basically to a volunatary salary reduction. That's all nice.

Other people use the term "restructure" in the more techinical caponomics sense to refer to the accounting method approved (or not disapproved) under the CBA described by OTC as "In a restructure, a team converts some of a player's non-guaranteed base salary or bonuses into a guaranteed signing bonus, of which is prorated through the remaining years of a player's contract. Restructuring is a common manuever to gain room for the current cap year at the cost of adding liabilities against future cap years." That's also all nice.

It's just that when some people use "restructure" in one sense to try to talk to people using "restructure" in the other sense, all kinds of miscommunication merriment ensues.

Not a rant, just an observation.

 

[fearsomefour]

Can't see restructuring him if it moves a cap hit out with his injury history.

 

[OldSchool]

I disagree on cutting Tavon. The amount we save is only 3 mill for cutting him and no way we go into FA/Draft/OTA's etc. without Demoff trying to drop that cap hit and fix that contract to a fitting amount that he would get elsewhere in the league.

You cannot lower the cap hit on Tavon by cutting him. He is due a guaranteed $5 million on 3/16/18. No matter what you do to extend/restructure/manipulate his contract he will be paid $5 million by the Rams on that date.

 

[Corbin]

You cannot lower the cap hit on Tavon by cutting him. He is due a guaranteed $5 million on 3/16/18. No matter what you do to extend/restructure/manipulate his contract he will be paid $5 million by the Rams on that date.

Oldschool we aren't talking about his guaranteed $5 mill dollars. We are talking about the cap savings in that post which is $3 mill and he was asking if it could be more, which it is not.

 

[8to12]

OTC doesn't always recalculate for me when I switch back and forth, but I'll give it a shot:

Using the OTC numbers, before any restructure, the Rams can cut Quinn before the 2019 season without any dead money under the cap. (Approx. 955k hit for a cut before the 2018 season).

An OTC maximum restructure in 2018 reduces Quinn's 2018 cap number from about 12.4 M to about 7.1M but increases the 2019 cap hit from about 12.9M to about 18.2M. This hypothetical restructure also means that cutting Quinn before the 2019 season will cost the Rams about 5.3M in dead cap space. That's 5.3M more than before the restructure.

I severely doubt Quinn can legally up his performance in 2018 to be worth 18.2M in 2019. Cheers to those who disagree.

So a 2018 restructure (1) gets the Rams more cap space in 2018 at the cost of (2) a ridiculous cap hit for 2019; and (3) dings the Rams for a sizable dead cap if/when they cut Quinn before the 2019 season (because there's no way he'll be worth a 18.2M cap hit).

Of course, YMMV.

Thank you Sir! OTC wasn't showing increased cap hit for 2019 when I clicked on "restructure".

 

[wolfdogg]

You cannot lower the cap hit on Tavon by cutting him. He is due a guaranteed $5 million on 3/16/18. No matter what you do to extend/restructure/manipulate his contract he will be paid $5 million by the Rams on that date.

If the rams need the money they should cut Tavon before march 16th. I understand the jet sweep threat but cooper has already shown he's a better runner, now, than tavon and he doesn't fumble-as much. Cooper can be the jet sweep guy and I think initially wed get some big gains because the defense may not respect the sweep threat with cooper and that will morph into the defense having to account for him just as they do for Tavon now. If the rams can do what they want in the off season and still afford tavons salary I'm all for it but if it hampers their ability to keep even one other play then I would cut or trade him.

 

[jrry32]

There's no point in restructuring his deal. We could give him an extension, but I doubt that happens. And I feel quite confident that he's not going to accept a pay-cut.

 

[wolfdogg]

There's no point in restructuring his deal. We could give him an extension, but I doubt that happens. And I feel quite confident that he's not going to accept a pay-cut.

So you think he's either getting traded or cut with the first option obviously being traded.

 

[jrry32]

So you think he's either getting traded or cut with the first option obviously being traded.

No, I think he's going to be a Ram next year on the same contract. If he plays poorly, we'll cut him after 2018.

 

[dieterbrock]

If the rams need the money they should cut Tavon before march 16th. I understand the jet sweep threat but cooper has already shown he's a better runner, now, than tavon and he doesn't fumble-as much. Cooper can be the jet sweep guy and I think initially wed get some big gains because the defense may not respect the sweep threat with cooper and that will morph into the defense having to account for him just as they do for Tavon now. If the rams can do what they want in the off season and still afford tavons salary I'm all for it but if it hampers their ability to keep even one other play then I would cut or trade him.

I think Austin has trade value. 3 mill isn’t a terrible cap hit for a 1 year player who has 3 non guaranteed years afterwords. Unless they wrap up Watkins before 3/16, I don’t see the rush in cutting him.

 

[CanadaRam]

Oldschool we aren't talking about his guaranteed $5 mill dollars. We are talking about the cap savings in that post which is $3 mill and he was asking if it could be more, which it is not.

Rams can actually save more than the 3M against the cap.
TA's contract has off-set language in it, meaning anything that he gets paid by another team for 2018 if cut by the Rams would reduce the cap-hit on the Rams.

 

[dieterbrock]

Rams can actually save more than the 3M against the cap.
TA's contract has off-set language in it, meaning anything that he gets paid by another team for 2018 if cut by the Rams would reduce the cap-hit on the Rams.

Pretty sure the off set is only off the 3 mill salary, the 5 mill hit is already on the books

 

[CanadaRam]

Pretty sure the off set is only off the 3 mill salary, the 5 mill hit is already on the books

You might be right, I am going by what I read in a Florio/PFT article: "Per a source with knowledge of the situation, both components of Austin’s 2018 pay include offsets, meaning that if, for example, he’d get cut before the salary vests, his $5 million roster bonus would be reduced by what he earns elsewhere."

So if he is cut before March 16th (when he is paid the 5M) and the info above is correct, there could be additional cap savings.