Peter King: Rams Must Trade Up, Draft Quarterback

[kurtfaulk]

Me, personally...I'd be willing to do the RGIII trade. And would be elated if they only were asking 2 1sts, a 2nd, and a 4th.(Eli trade)

rg3 #6 to #2

eli #4 to #1

rams #high teens to #?


to get a team to drop so low would cost an enormous amount of draft capital.

.

 

[jrry32]

rg3 #6 to #2

eli #4 to #1

rams #high teens to #?


to get a team to drop so low would cost an enormous amount of draft capital.

.

Different drafts, different prospects.

In 2013, Miami traded up from #12 to #3 using their 2nd round pick only.

In 2011, Atlanta traded from #27 to #6 using a future 1st, their 2nd, their 4th, and a future 4th.

In 2014, Buffalo traded from #9 to #4 using a future 1st and a future 4th. This draft class was one of the most talented draft classes of the past decade.(if not the most talented)

The RGIII trade was in 2012.

The main thing to remember is that with the RGIII trade and the Eli trade, you had a team holding the player captive with the ability to spark a bidding war. That's what drove the price up. The Chargers had Eli. The Rams had RGIII. They knew they weren't going to keep them.

It's not going to cost more than the RGIII trade. How many times in the last 20 years has a team given up what Washington did for RGIII? That should tell you how much that is to give up.

We just have to find a team in the top 4 willing to move down that far.(and hope Cleveland doesn't take Goff first) Who are we bidding against that will drive the price up?

 

[Akrasian]

rg3 #6 to #2

eli #4 to #1

rams #high teens to #?


to get a team to drop so low would cost an enormous amount of draft capital.

.

Exactly. An insane amount. Especially to trade up for a premium QB, which historically takes more than to trade up in mediocre years without a premium QB. The draft trade chart is an average, and is low when a premium QB is involved. And even if Goff is the best QB prospect since Luck (dubious, but whatever); Luck was the best QB prospect since Sam - and we know how that worked out.

What I love is how people are acting like Goff is a fantastic prospect - and apparently only the Rams will notice, and he will be available at a bargain at the 4 or 5 slot. No. If he really is this sure thing, other teams will notice, and it will take a premium to trade up to #1 to get him. Anything else is assuming that the poster is smarter than EVERY other team in the NFL.

 

[jrry32]

Exactly. An insane amount. Especially to trade up for a premium QB, which historically takes more than to trade up in mediocre years without a premium QB. The draft trade chart is an average, and is low when a premium QB is involved. And even if Goff is the best QB prospect since Luck (dubious, but whatever); Luck was the best QB prospect since Sam - and we know how that worked out.

What I love is how people are acting like Goff is a fantastic prospect - and apparently only the Rams will notice, and he will be available at a bargain at the 4 or 5 slot. No. If he really is this sure thing, other teams will notice, and it will take a premium to trade up to #1 to get him. Anything else is assuming that the poster is smarter than EVERY other team in the NFL.

Or different NFL teams will have different opinions of the guy. Kind of like how NFL teams dogged guys like Bridgewater and Carr.

Giving up the RGIII trade isn't a bargain. That's pretty nuts to argue that it is. Giving up multiple first round picks is not a bargain. It's a lot.

 

[Akrasian]

Or different NFL teams will have different opinions of the guy. Kind of like how NFL teams dogged guys like Bridgewater and Carr.

Giving up the RGIII trade isn't a bargain. That's pretty nuts to argue that it is. Giving up multiple first round picks is not a bargain. It's a lot.

One of the problems is - there are multiple teams desperate for a franchise QB who are drafting far higher than the Rams. And you and others are acting like Goff is a sure thing - not a good prospect, but a sure thing - and it is silly to think that the Browns and especially the 49ers wouldn't have noticed him, if that were the case.

Now, as I've said before, I have doubts about any college QB who doesn't take snaps under center. It's not that it's hard to teach him to catch the snap, it's that the reads are radically different, especially for a QB who routinely has 4 WRs to throw to, instead of having a system where Gurley is the focus. Historically even "sure things" have trouble adjusting at times to that change.

 

[jrry32]

One of the problems is - there are multiple teams desperate for a franchise QB who are drafting far higher than the Rams. And you and others are acting like Goff is a sure thing - not a good prospect, but a sure thing - and it is silly to think that the Browns and especially the 49ers wouldn't have noticed him, if that were the case.

Now, as I've said before, I have doubts about any college QB who doesn't take snaps under center. It's not that it's hard to teach him to catch the snap, it's that the reads are radically different, especially for a QB who routinely has 4 WRs to throw to, instead of having a system where Gurley is the focus. Historically even "sure things" have trouble adjusting at times to that change.

Horseshit. I'm acting like I evaluated the guy and think he'll be great. It is silly to think every NFL team will evaluate and grade prospects similarly.

The 49ers are the reason why we need to trade up.

And as I said before, I think the whole "doesn't take snaps under center" critique is antiquated at this point.

 

[Akrasian]

And as I said before, I think the whole "doesn't take snaps under center" critique is antiquated at this point.

Yeah, not so much. One of the most important things that QBs have to do is read defenses. It is far easier to read defenses with 4 WRs and taking the snap in the shot gun, than in a pro offense. Some college QBs can make the transition - not all. Just because a college HC who has a vested interest in convincing recruits to come to his program says otherwise means diddley. There is a long history of top college QBs not making the transition because while they could read defenses okay in a relatively easy scheme, in a complex pro scheme taking the ball under the center they just couldn't do it. There is a reason that so many colleges run those offenses - it's far easier to find QBs who can excel in simplified college systems, than in pro systems.

 

[Debacled]

There are no QBs worth remotely what the Skins paid for RGIII. That said, teams will still want a good amount to move from top 5 down into the mid to late teens, and it will be steep.

Personally I don't think there are any QBs in this class worth blowing that many picks on. (Next years class is looking even worse for what its worth, but thats irrelevant for now).

I also do not believe a rookie QB is what is going to put this team over the top. Especially not the ones in this class (I don't think any of them are exactly pro ready either). Yes they need a solution at QB, but no it wont come from a rookie in this upcoming class, at least not in the 2016 season.

 

[jrry32]

Yeah, not so much. One of the most important things that QBs have to do is read defenses. It is far easier to read defenses with 4 WRs and taking the snap in the shot gun, than in a pro offense. Some college QBs can make the transition - not all. Just because a college HC who has a vested interest in convincing recruits to come to his program says otherwise means diddley. There is a long history of top college QBs not making the transition because while they could read defenses okay in a relatively easy scheme, in a complex pro scheme taking the ball under the center they just couldn't do it. There is a reason that so many colleges run those offenses - it's far easier to find QBs who can excel in simplified college systems, than in pro systems.

Okay, give me an example of a QB that failed because he couldn't take snaps under center.

Failing to read the defense at the next level has nothing to do with being under center. If it were that simple, the team would just go shotgun every play.

Yes, there is a reason why colleges run those offenses...because it's easier for the QB to scan the field, get the ball out quickly, and spread the field from shotgun. Not to mention the simplicity of it all.

But we're talking about pro prospects. The top 1% of the top 1%. If you can read a NFL defense from the shotgun, you can read a NFL defense while under center.

Is it something Goff will have to adapt to? Sure. But he's not going to fail because he hasn't taken snaps under center. It's a bogus critique. If you believe he won't be able to read defenses at the NFL level, that's a real critique.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

The chemistry doesn't have to be there. We've won a number of games this year with a passing attack that put up less than 200 yards. We need the threat of a passing attack to keep the defense honest and players that can make plays when the opportunity presents itself. Anything beyond that and we're golden.

I think what you're expecting Fisher to do is the opposite of shrewd.(maybe that is your way of saying he's not shrewd) But that's just my opinion.

I also don't think anyone will sympathize with Fisher if he can't get the team to the playoffs after 5 years.

It certainly seems that if Fisher were to insert a rookie he would have to be game ready to start the season. There aren't a lot of guys that can do that right out of the gate. If this is the case and the rookie falters it could mean another missed playoff. So, are you suggesting that is the path he should take? And if so how confident are you that it is better than starting Keenum for half the season?

Rams must trade up to draft QB?

Such a blanket statement is foolish. Sure, the Rams may need a QB (though we haven't seen Mannion yet), but must trade up?

That assumes that there is some guaranteed answer at the position waiting for the team and there may not be one. And at what cost? Some have their favorites, but I haven't seen anyone ranking or raving about any potential QBs in this draft class like they did about Elway, Luck, the Manning brothers, etc...

That is correct on all points. Personally I hate to see the future picks go. Saying they have to move up premature too.

We have not seen what Mannion can do. Have the coaches convincedthemselves, either way about him? Do they hang their hat on him and go with Case next year?

Will any of the rookies be ready to start well enough to make a, playoff run?

You have an interesting take.

The closest team that Fisher wants to emulate is Seattle. In 2013 and 2014 (Seattle's super bowl years), their passing never ranked better than 25th. So I believe your argument is valid on surface. The one dimension missing from this is Russel Wilson's running threat.

It's great defense (rams are comparable), great running game (Gurely comparable to Lynch), great special teams (both teams very good) + read option QB with decent accuracy (Rams don't have it) on the run and in the pocket was what made all of this happen for Seattle.

So, 200 yards or less passing yards per game (without QB running) is not a consistent winning formula. They need to find either a good pocket QB (like Joe Flacco) or a read option QB like Russell Wilson. Once they have either of these QB pieces, Rams need to have a good TE ( i don't know if Rams have one the roster), an OK #1 WR (compare to Golden Tate of Seattle). On top of this one has to hope Boras is on the level of Darell Bevell.

So it is a lot more than just adding a QB.

Or does adding more weapons at WR improve the passing game enough to put the m over thehump?

If Goff is that good, it's worth the trade just to keep him out of Frisco.

Yes and no. If another QB behind him is just as good then they spend a bounty in picks just to jump ahead. Plus is it a big deal if the Niners get a good QB? The Giants demonstrated how a great pass rush trumps a, great QB, twice

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Having Keenum play a conservative mistake free game hinders the process and nearly be 4-0 with a landmark victory in Seattle adds to it. A few games ago Snead said that finding a QB will once again be an off-season priority. So, will Fisher prefer to roll with Keenum now and be content to wait on Mannion to develop?

Was Snead referring to another veteran QB instead?

Is the pressure off to trade up into round 1 for a QB and just take what the draft gives them?

It seems to me that trading up to get one of this year's QBs is no guarantee.

 

[Picked4td]

Unless Goff or Lynch have a Bridgewater like offseason and drop, I cant imagine the Rams being able to get either of them. As of now theres a good chance they both go top 5 and I doubt a top 5 team would like to drop from top 5 to late teens. Personally, I think the most likely way to get to the top 5 is 2 trade ups (which idk if its even possible) to limit how far the top 5 team would drop back.

 

[jrry32]

It certainly seems that if Fisher were to insert a rookie he would have to be game ready to start the season. There aren't a lot of guys that can do that right out of the gate. If this is the case and the rookie falters it could mean another missed playoff. So, are you suggesting that is the path he should take? And if so how confident are you that it is better than starting Keenum for half the season?

I've posted the list a few times. Don't know if I did in this thread. But at least 11 of the 16 rookie QB seasons since 2010 (of guys that started 12+ games) would have gotten us to the playoffs this year. There isn't a high bar set with our QB play this year.

Even if Keenum provided better play for half the season, we're drafting for more than one season. The rookie will be worth more down the road if we select the right guy. And frankly, I don't think it's crazy to think he can provide just as good if not better play than Keenum as a rookie.

Yes and no. If another QB behind him is just as good then they spend a bounty in picks just to jump ahead. Plus is it a big deal if the Niners get a good QB? The Giants demonstrated how a great pass rush trumps a, great QB, twice

Because we're competing for them so it benefits us to take the good QB away from them considering both of our teams need QBs.

 

[Mojo Ram]

Rams problems are deeper than just QB. They need a lot of changes on offensive side.

Legit QB and playmaking WR. That's two problems by my count. This team is really close. Many may disagree with me but that's okay.

 

[Force16X]

Good receivers are easier to find than good qb's. Give Keenum a couple receivefs who actually scare somebody and watch the difference it makes. No doubt in my mind our passing game moves to the middle of the pack and coupled with our running game and elite defense we will break the string of non winning seasons and string of missing the playoffs. All predicated on continued improvement on the OL.

does anyone consider trading up for Laquon Treadwell as a good idea??

 

[SuperMan28]

This is just the national media saying they won't jump on the Rams bandwagon again until they get a QB. Rams always make them look like commonly opinionated folk and it's geat. Nobody wants to predict what the Rams are gonna do.

 

[Athos]

does anyone consider trading up for Laquon Treadwell as a good idea??

Terrible idea imo. I love him but I don't see top 10 WR ability. I could be wrong, but no.

 

[SaneRamsFan]

does anyone consider trading up for Laquon Treadwell as a good idea??

IF he fell out of the top ten for some reason I would consider paying the freight-our 1 and one of our two's if that was enough-otherwise I let the draft come to me without forcing it. There are other good receivers. I advocate drafting one and adding a fa veteran. ND tight end may be there with our first 2.

 

[SaneRamsFan]

I don't spend hours trying to evaluate players and predict the draft, but I do like to try and figure out what I think the Rams will do. I think it will look something like this-The last two years the Rams have been highly rewarded for taking player regardless of need in the first round and I expect them to do the same this year. And I have absolutey no clue who that will be. Just like we had no cue that Donald and Gurley would be Rams. They will take the best value even if its a defensive player. With their two second round picks I would look for Hunter Henry and Dak Prescott or Connnor Cook (Who I think are their preferences at QB)

 

[FrankenRam]

.....BPA be damned.

Really?!?! In the last 2 drafts the Rams have selected the 'BPA' with AD99 and TG30. It could be argued that neither one of them were a 'need' at the time they were selected.

Go back to those drafts and tell me who was available at the time those 2 were selected and who you would take instead.(?)

BPA be damned...indeed.