New: Latest on Kroenke, Rams and NFL in STL

[Hacksaw]

I think anyone who makes fun of people are just jealous. Carson is a lot of crap talking. Not saying it won't happen, but Inglewood is silent but deadly. I don't see how that stadium doesnt get built honestly.

Go quietly and carry a big stick..

 

[Hacksaw]

And I don't see how you can make that statement either - it's not like you speak for the people who stopped cheering for the rams, switched allegiances, or quit football all together after the Rams left LA.

I won't say it didn't occur but who specifically and how many are you referring to?

St.Louis on the other hand has been faithful and loyal to a poor product - not sure how you can say they're city first when all they do is support their franchises here, good or bad.

His response was likely focused on all the posters who've clearly stated (I paraphrase) 'if the team goes, don't let the door hit them on the ass'.

 

[RamFan503]

We beat one of your baseball teams.

I'm a Dodgers fan and to this I say touché.

 

[RamFan503]

St.Louis on the other hand has been faithful and loyal to a poor product - not sure how you can say they're city first when all they do is support their franchises here, good or bad.

So you're saying we shouldn't be upset by the fact that we've had to put up with crappy teams for a decade and when we finally have a good season, they bolt to another city? Mmmkay.

I think a lot of people in St Louis forget or never really followed what the LA fans went through prior to the move from LA. We watched as Georgia and Shaw purposely dismantled the team to put a losing product on the field. We endured 5 straight years of very bad football as well. Granted - not nearly as long of a stretch as in St Louis but at least over the past few seasons, there has been a pretty strong move to improve the quality of the product on the field in St Louis.

This all sucks for pretty much all of us. Even though the LA fans want the Rams back, I think most agree and know how it sucks even worse for the existing market to lose a team.

Not only did LA fans have to endure the intentional snubbing of the fan base but Mr. Rosenbloom's untimely death immediately after they changed the IRS laws regarding spouses and the firing of Mike (I meant Steve) by his doting mother. And this while Georgia lived well beyond her means while being the sugar momma for some 7 boyfriends (allegedly). The one thing I think we can all agree on is that in both these cases, our one bond is the Rams themselves - not the owners.

It has been so long since I have either lived in LA or that the Rams have played in LA that I don't really care where they play. But I certainly can see the pain created by this entire issue.

 

[8to12]

So you're saying we shouldn't be upset by the fact that we've had to put up with crappy teams for a decade and when we finally have a good season, they bolt to another city? Mmmkay.

I'm not saying you have to put up with a team the loses most of it's games. If that's the premise of your fandom, then go find another team that wins most of the time. I can't relate to the argument of, " I have been loyal despite all of the losing".

 

[Big Willie]

Reading through these posts, I get the feeling people believe this is a St Louis vs LA thing. Pure and simple, It's a money and prestige thing...both of which are available in LA and not in St Louis. The Rams will end in LA unless the league stops them from going (or some back room deal is struck with Kroenke). If St Louis gets the financing in place, we will eventually get a new team....and if St Louisians are okay in taking hand-me-downs over and over from the NFL, then our people will support it. Remember, good teams don't leave their cities....so if we get the Raiders, or Jags, or some other team, be prepared for several more years of putrid on-field performance and bad drafting.

I love football, it's my favorite sport. I am not angry about this situation, but I am big on having the respect of others. I see the potential loss of the Rams as a loss of respect by the owners who vote for them to leave (if it comes to that) and the league. And, if they don't respect my city and the people who live here or value money above "doing right by us", I can live without the NFL and without football. If the Rams leave, I will devote all my sports entertainment dollars to the Cardinals, Blues, and hopefully a new professional soccer team. Maybe Lionel Messi or Cristiano Ronaldo can become our designated player as they will be getting up in age in 2020.

 

[iced]

I think a lot of people in St Louis forget or never really followed what the LA fans went through prior to the move from LA. We watched as Georgia and Shaw purposely dismantled the team to put a losing product on the field. We endured 5 straight years of very bad football as well. Granted - not nearly as long of a stretch as in St Louis but at least over the past few seasons, there has been a pretty strong move to improve the quality of the product on the field in St Louis.

This all sucks for pretty much all of us. Even though the LA fans want the Rams back, I think most agree and know how it sucks even worse for the existing market to lose a team.

Not only did LA fans have to endure the intentional snubbing of the fan base but Mr. Rosenbloom's untimely death immediately after they changed the IRS laws regarding spouses and the firing of Mike by his doting mother. And this while Georgia lived well beyond her means while being the sugar momma for some 7 boyfriends (allegedly). The one thing I think we can all agree on is that in both these cases, our one bond is the Rams themselves - not the owners.

It has been so long since I have either lived in LA or that the Rams have played in LA that I don't really care where they play. But I certainly can see the pain created by this entire issue.

I can imagine what it felt like to lose a team - however i take issue when someone say's St.Louis is city first and not loyal to the team.... That would be the exact opposite of what Peacock has been doing and saying. "Stan can move to LA if he wants - go ahead, just don't take our team." sounds loyal to the team to me

As to Shaw - I never followed the LA saga (too young, was 10 when they moved)...However I don't think Shaw intentionally destroyed the team - I don't think he knew how to build one or sustain one. Look at how he ran the team after Vermeil left - right back into the ground again.

I don't think his intentions were malicious as much as they were incompetent

 

[iced]

I won't say it didn't occur but who specifically and how many are you referring to?

I don't know how many - there are some that exist that I met briefly in my time in Socal...but I'm not going to take views of the few people i've met that feel that way and broadly apply that to a whole city or fan base.

His response was likely focused on all the posters who've clearly stated (I paraphrase) 'if the team goes, don't let the door hit them on the ass'.

And that would be the 2nd time a team has left St.Louis. When the Cards left, the city fell in love with the Rams..If the Rams leave, I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing happened in the future.

And I completely understand where people are coming from - with the manner of which Kroenke and Bidwell conducted themselves, you expect people to contribute their money and support that?

 

[Legatron4]

I'm not saying you have to put up with a team the loses most of it's games. If that's the premise of your fandom, then go find another team that wins most of the time. I can't relate to the argument of, " I have been loyal despite all of the losing".

Dude, it has nothing to do with my fandom. I will be a fan regardless. I'm saying it blows big donkey dick that we sat through 10 years of losing, and when they finally seem like they break through, they fucking move to another city.

 

[blue4]

I didn't know that Anheuser-Busch was pulling executives and possibly the factory out of St Louis, that's an interesting point. Shame if they do pull the factory out, because of the history there. Since it's no longer an American company though, I guess they don't have as much sentimental value on the place. Otherwise, sounds like he was agreeing with Bernie, the market study will show that fans like the Rams, but there's questions from the corporate guys, which of course is who they want to have on their side.

It'll be interesting if Peacock can convince those businesses to sign on, or if that'll even work (for keeping the Rams anyway), but if he's right and the NFL believes that the best they can do is middle of the pack, that might be somewhat damming. I think the NFL would like to see someone with Kroenke's weight up at the top, because that helps the rest of them out.

Considering a supersized chunk of domestic production would go bye bye if St Louis closed I'd say these reports are BS. I am let's say aware of some ins and outs of production in St Louis and our costs to make a unit of beer are some of the best in North America. In almost every measurable category we rank near the top on efficiency. Certainly amongst the tops on the planet in sheer volume. Heck, we even make our own electricity.

The AB corporate side has taken a beating here. Consolidation, internet and airport/flight issues are what's blamed.
Also, if you look at the raw data, St Louis has plenty of business and corporate presence compared to other NFL cities. If there is any cooling of that kind of support it's because of the teams lack of success and the lack of Rams to attempt any reaching out to that kind of support.

 

[blue4]

I think a lot of people in St Louis forget or never really followed what the LA fans went through prior to the move from LA. We watched as Georgia and Shaw purposely dismantled the team to put a losing product on the field. We endured 5 straight years of very bad football as well. Granted - not nearly as long of a stretch as in St Louis but at least over the past few seasons, there has been a pretty strong move to improve the quality of the product on the field in St Louis.

This all sucks for pretty much all of us. Even though the LA fans want the Rams back, I think most agree and know how it sucks even worse for the existing market to lose a team.

Not only did LA fans have to endure the intentional snubbing of the fan base but Mr. Rosenbloom's untimely death immediately after they changed the IRS laws regarding spouses and the firing of Mike by his doting mother. And this while Georgia lived well beyond her means while being the sugar momma for some 7 boyfriends (allegedly). The one thing I think we can all agree on is that in both these cases, our one bond is the Rams themselves - not the owners.

It has been so long since I have either lived in LA or that the Rams have played in LA that I don't really care where they play. But I certainly can see the pain created by this entire issue.

I haven't forgotten, I just get confused as to why there is still so many LA fans after she shafted you. I realize this is a poor analogy, but to me it's like stalking your ex wife after she cheated on you and told you to get lost, you aren't good enough.

That is certainly how I would take the Rams leaving. Why would I follow, or why would you follow, a team that pisses on you as a fan and on your city? Especially a Stan Kroenke owned team, as he was one of the people who pissed on you. If the Cardinals come back here, it needs to be someone other than a Bidwell as owner.

Of course, IMO, YMMV, etc.

 

[8to12]

And I don't see how you can make that statement either - it's not like you speak for the people who stopped cheering for the rams, switched allegiances, or quit football all together after the Rams left LA.

St.Louis on the other hand has been faithful and loyal to a poor product - not sure how you can say they're city first when all they do is support their franchises here, good or bad.

I see what you are saying about a certain group of people from LA. I will first say I know that there are a certain number of people in So-Cal who quit being Ram fans when Georgia moved the team. There are some in the "Bring back the LA Rams" group that I know disowned the team in '95 but are now jumping on the bandwagon. I don't associate with that group. Many of them are what I consider the "City first" type that we are discussing.
Secondly, In my 15 years of travels to STL for Rams games I have never seen or met 1 person who considers them self a football Cardinals fan. In addition, I have not read any post on this board or any other that a STL fan would continue to follow, or be a fan of the Rams if they are to move to LA.
In comparison, many Rams fans from So-Cal travel to STL each season to see the Rams play. Point being, there are many more fans from California who are loyal to the team regardless of where they play whereas fans from STL root only for the team that plays in STL.

Regarding your point, " been faithful and loyal to a poor product", I found your choice of words interesting. I think that being fanatical about a team and being a consumer of an NFL product 2 different things. A Fan has uncritical enthusiasm for their team. A consumer has expectations and sometimes conditions on what they buy. If someone wants a high quality NFL product (team) that has a high winning percentage, then have them go find another team that meets those expectations and stop complaining about the Rams and their performance the past 10 years.
You can't have it both ways ; you can't be a loyal fan and then assign conditions to it.

 

[OldSchool]

Regarding your point, " been faithful and loyal to a poor product", I found your choice of words interesting. I think that being fanatical about a team and being a consumer of an NFL product 2 different things. A Fan has uncritical enthusiasm for their team. A consumer has expectations and sometimes conditions on what they buy. If someone wants a high quality NFL product (team) that has a high winning percentage, then have them go find another team that meets those expectations and stop complaining about the Rams and their performance the past 10 years.
You can't have it both ways ; you can't be a loyal fan and then assign conditions to it.

Well said and one of the things with this whole mess that I have always thought as well.

 

[bluecoconuts]

The mayor of Carson keeps taking shots at Ingelwood, I don't understand why? Inglewood hasn't taken any shots at Carson publicly as far as I know.

I've always felt that the Carson mayor was a bit bush league and in over his head. That might be because the first time he got "introduced" to the national audience he was wearing a split Chargers-Raiders jersey, which is fucking retarded on multiple levels, letting everyone know how much of a douche he is. Plus throwing a parade, stuff like that, it's just dumb.

I think the Inglewood mayor is just far better at politics, he's playing that aspect of it a lot better. Both are viable options, but I think the Carson mayor knows the Inglewood stadium is a little grander and a little more of a sure thing, so he's a bit insecure. Which is stupid, because his project is just fine as it stands. It might not offer as much as Inglewood, but it's still good.

 

[8to12]

Dude, it has nothing to do with my fandom. I will be a fan regardless. I'm saying it blows big donkey dick that we sat through 10 years of losing, and when they finally seem like they break through, they freaking move to another city.

OK, if you are "a fan regardless", then why does it matter where they call home?

 

[bluecoconuts]

Regarding your point, " been faithful and loyal to a poor product", I found your choice of words interesting. I think that being fanatical about a team and being a consumer of an NFL product 2 different things. A Fan has uncritical enthusiasm for their team. A consumer has expectations and sometimes conditions on what they buy. If someone wants a high quality NFL product (team) that has a high winning percentage, then have them go find another team that meets those expectations and stop complaining about the Rams and their performance the past 10 years.
You can't have it both ways ; you can't be a loyal fan and then assign conditions to it.

I don't think he's conditioning his fandom based on success, I think that's a totally different argument.

I believe he's saying that it rubs a little salt in the wound, that we can possibly see the light at the end of a very dark and long tunnel for our Rams, and there's a chance they might pick up and go. After so many years of having to watch a poor product they might leave.

Some fans will stick around, some wont, just like what happened when they left Los Angeles 20 years ago, some fans left and some fans stuck around. While it was great to see them win the Super Bowl 4 years later, there was probably some fans who had the idea that "That should have been in our city, I could have gone to those games and watched that team play and seen that parade" after they won.

If the LA Kings had moved in 2009 or 2010 and then gone to win two cups in three years in another city, I'd certainly be a little bummed that they didn't do that in LA after 40 years, that another city got to enjoy the team turning the corner. I would probably still follow the Kings, but it would be a little bit of a downer.


Doesn't make me a bad Kings fan, just like it doesn't make anyone a bad Rams fan.

 

[Legatron4]

OK, if you are "a fan regardless", then why does it matter where they call home?

Because it's important to STL to keep the Rams. Because everything I own is STL and I started being a fan when they were the St.Louis Rams. I like the non hype we get. A move to LA means massive coverage and memes about how many bandwagon fans we have. I don't want to have to buy all new stuff. Plus, going to LA is a bitch. Traffic sucks and it's too crowded. So yeah, I'm going to stay a fan until I die. But I'll probably never be able to see them live again at a home game.

 

[Pancake]

I can imagine what it felt like to lose a team - however i take issue when someone say's St.Louis is city first and not loyal to the team.... That would be the exact opposite of what Peacock has been doing and saying. "Stan can move to LA if he wants - go ahead, just don't take our team." sounds loyal to the team to me

As to Shaw - I never followed the LA saga (too young, was 10 when they moved)...However I don't think Shaw intentionally destroyed the team - I don't think he knew how to build one or sustain one. Look at how he ran the team after Vermeil left - right back into the ground again.

I don't think his intentions were malicious as much as they were incompetent

Problem with your view on Shaw is that you have the 80's where the Rams were a competitive team except for 81' 82' and 87'. Then you have another stretch of years from 99 to 2006 where the Rams were again competitive. Like him or not but the fact is almost half of his 31 years served with the Rams produced winning teams. Yah less than 50% sucks but it's enough to say he wasn't completely clueless.

I think if you take a look at the roster moves from 90' until 94' you'd be hard pressed to find another period of time when the Rams were so unbelievably inept at identifying talented football players. It was too inept to believe that it wasn't part of a plan to drive fans away. Especially when GF's main argument was that she was going bankrupt if the team stayed in LA. She couldn't put a good team on the field or else the fans would buy tickets and fill the seats and her argument would fall to shit.

 

[Hacksaw]

I can imagine what it felt like to lose a team - however i take issue when someone say's St.Louis is city first and not loyal to the team.... That would be the exact opposite of what Peacock has been doing and saying. "Stan can move to LA if he wants - go ahead, just don't take our team." sounds loyal to the team to me

As to Shaw - I never followed the LA saga (too young, was 10 when they moved)...However I don't think Shaw intentionally destroyed the team - I don't think he knew how to build one or sustain one. Look at how he ran the team after Vermeil left - right back into the ground again.

I don't think his intentions were malicious as much as they were incompetent

The point you make about his ability to build a winner is spot on!

Back then, his intentions were shrewd and calculated. He was Madame Rams personal bean counter interested in bottom lines who got promoted by her to improve Ram bottom lines,,, but not so much goal lines. The firing of Steve Rosenbloom was a huge tell of things to come later.
I believe it was Mike Barber (TE) who was once quoted in the paper about how Shaw came into the Rams locker room after his promotion and grilled Barber and fellow TE David Hill for not reporting their injuries to the team. After Shaw walked away, Hill said (I paraphrase) 'man we are in some big trouble'. Apparently Shaw was unaware players tape up before competition.

Stadium problems caused the team to look for other options (sound familiar?). When Shaw found an out in the lease with Anaheim, he exercised it giving the stipulated 5 year notice. From that point forward the team started shedding quality to affect attendance. It worked some too some degree especially with the Raiders bagging some of the market share.

All fans / people are different. Some don't talk to their ex's and some would stay loyal to the franchise no matter where they played. Others only like the team that represents their hometown or region. A lot of it comes from who's playing where/when your growing up. The above referenced fan thing is not an absolute condition, but it does exist. Some fans will not follow if jilted, some won't because they aren't horns first and the other will because they are.

 

[Hacksaw]

Because it's important to STL to keep the Rams. Because everything I own is STL and I started being a fan when they were the St.Louis Rams. I like the non hype we get. A move to LA means massive coverage and memes about how many bandwagon fans we have. I don't want to have to buy all new stuff. Plus, going to LA is a bitch. Traffic sucks and it's too crowded. So yeah, I'm going to stay a fan until I die. But I'll probably never be able to see them live again at a home game.

I'm glad you'd stick if they don't..

So, does your route ever have you out this way?