Kyren Williams future discussion

[El Chapo Jr]

Look at the niners this season.Certain players play there contracts out.
Kyren is not even thinking about next season.His price in gold is to keep winning & performing.

Well of course he shouldn't be thinking about his contract now but that will change in the off season. I'm sure his agent will also remind him as well. Looking at the 9ers this season, Williams, Bosa, and Aiyuk all got signed before their contract ran out. This is done so a player doesn't get tempted to hit FA because some desperate team out there might push his price tag up.

 

[So Ram]

Well of course he shouldn't be thinking about his contract now but that will change in the off season. I'm sure his agent will also remind him as well. Looking at the 9ers this season, Williams, Bosa, and Aiyuk all got signed before their contract ran out. This is done so a player doesn't get tempted to hit FA because some desperate team out there might push his price tag up.

Well Purdy is the lowest paid player from his draft class.IMO Kyren Williams is that type of player(guy). Meaning he is Ram for Live type.The Rams will do the right thing for both team & player.
-Won’t say he will get PAID,but do know how The Rams have walked away from players wanting to get paid on the final 4 years.
—When your TALKING 1st rd picks & a 5 year contract then your point is more valued.The teams have an option year & The Players are locked in without a say.That’s how they negotiate now,plus you add The PRICE of a FRANCHISE TAG !!

 

[DzRams]

Kyren's agent will look at the other RBs on the list and ask for something between 13 mil and 17 mil. They can ask for 20, but the Rams will counter-offer lower.

Also, the guaranteed money will be a big factor. McC's is 36 million.

I agree that his agent will ask for something close to $17 mil. this offseason. If I'm his agent, given his production, $13 mil. is too low of an initial ask.

I think it will take north of $10 mil to resign him. My guess is $12-$13 mil. Do we see the Rams doing that?

Frankly, I don't.

 

[fanotodd]

What if Kyren scored a TD on every run? That hypothetical is as valid as your splitting carries hypothetical. He's not splitting carries. He's our bellcow HB. That has benefits in terms of volume. And it has detriments in terms of efficiency. Let's be realistic. I agree. You mentioned his yards per carry. I will point out that he's #3 in rushing yards and #4 in rushing TDs.

Which HBs are definitely better?
1. Saquon
2. Christian McCaffrey
3. Derrick Henry
4. Jonathan Taylor
5. Josh Jacobs
6. Jahmyr Gibbs

Beyond those guys, Bijan Robinson, Alvin Kamara, and Breece Hall have arguments. Nick Chubb used to be better. It's unclear if he's the same guy anymore. In other words, Kyren is very much in the top 10 conversation. At worst, he's just barely outside of the top 10.

Im not so sure about that list when you consider what is asked of a RB in the Ram offense. Two guys jump out immediately.

Henry: He doesn’t have breakaway speed either. He’s just a runaway train who encourages business decisions at the second and third levels. I don’t see him as effective in the passing game as KW is. Henry would not be a better fit on the Rams.

McCaffrey: he is a good comp because he is used much in the same way KW is. The difference between them is KW, once healthy in 2023, has outperformed mc. Mc is D-U-N, done. KW is now a more reliable and capable back.

No, I don’t see 10 backs who would outperform what KW has accomplished in this offense. Maybe 3 or 4.
Of course this is only my opinion and observation. To each his own.

 

[majrleaged]

Jeanty rushed for 192 yards (7.7 YPC) and 3 TDs on the #1 team in the country (Oregon) earlier this year. There was a WR we drafted in the 3rd round out of Eastern Washington. Absolutely murdered FCS competition. Every time he got to play P5 teams, he killed them too. He panned out pretty well for us.

Plus, there are a lot of successful HBs who played for programs that weren't in top conferences. I'm happy to give you the long list, but I think one will suffice to make my point: LaDainian Tomlinson.

Marshall Faulk San Diego State.

 

[PhillyRam]

Can't really say we have Kyren for one more year if he up and decides to push for an extension or get traded since he's eligible for one starting next year plus he's severely underpaid. Not saying he'll do this but it seems like most players try to get signed to a more secure contract in their last year of one.

True, he could do that, and I don't see the Rams offering him anything more than $5-6M a year...maybe $7M tops... even that might be too much.

However, I also don't see his open market value being great considering his size & speed and the idea that teams will think hus bieing used up here... maxed out.

So they might be able to sign him if they want for a decent price, maybe an incentive laden deal

 

[majrleaged]

It will be all about how much is guaranteed. The franchise tag is just under 12 mil. Maybe they could sign him for 3 years 28 mil guarantee most of it. That is if they want to sign him. They might just let him enter free agency and see what he can get. Then match or whatever. That is what I would do. Not sure he can keep this work load up.

 

[dang]

I’d like everyone to hit pause to see what KWill does for the Rams for the remainder of this year. Gotta remember he was running behind a MASH unit until recently. He’s got something more valuable than breakaway speed or the ability to leap tall LBs in a single bound. He’s got legitimate heart, overall talent and a chip on his shoulder.

 

[20hrswk]

Im not so sure about that list when you consider what is asked of a RB in the Ram offense. Two guys jump out immediately.

Henry: He doesn’t have breakaway speed either. He’s just a runaway train who encourages business decisions at the second and third levels. I don’t see him as effective in the passing game as KW is. Henry would not be a better fit on the Rams.

McCaffrey: he is a good comp because he is used much in the same way KW is. The difference between them is KW, once healthy in 2023, has outperformed mc. Mc is D-U-N, done. KW is now a more reliable and capable back.

No, I don’t see 10 backs who would outperform what KW has accomplished in this offense. Maybe 3 or 4.
Of course this is only my opinion and observation. To each his own.

PFF numbers for 2024:

Receiving: Henry 73.0 (11th) / Kyren 53.2 (45th)

Pass Block: Henry 67.0 (10th) / Kyren 38.9 (39th)

At the combine 40 yard dash: Henry 4.52 / Kyren 4.65
Henry's time is same as Tony Pollard & Nick Chubb, faster than Kamara & Aaron Jones.

Breakaway yards %: Henry 39.3 (5th) / Kyren 8.8 (53rd)
This means 39.3% of Henry's yards have been gained on runs of 15+ yards. Only 8.8% of Kyren's.
Kyren has a lot of 3 - 14 yard runs while Henry has a lot of 15+ yard runs.

Overall 2024: Henry 93.5 (1st) / Kyren 69.1 (33rd)
YPC: Henry 5.8 / Kyren 4.1
Henry runs behind the 19th (64.3) rated run blocking OL, Kyren runs behind the 4th (77.1) rated.

Maybe because he's 250 lbs. Henry's athleticism gets overlooked?
Henry is a first ballot HOFer playing at the highest level.
I would take him on the Rams in a heartbeat. It would be game changing for the offense.

Henry's cap hit this year is just $5mil. Next year it will be $11mil.
Kyren plays for basically $1mil this year and next - we hope (holdout possible?)

Like everyone else - just my opinion.

 

[Merlin]

No, I don’t see 10 backs who would outperform what KW has accomplished in this offense. Maybe 3 or 4.

We have a power OL now who can move people pretty well. Kyren does a great job of beating the blown blocks and he's a slippery bastid in traffic but I'd like to see a power RB in this offense.

Keep saying it too. McVay loves him some passcatchy backs but his offense looks incredible with a power back. So a guy like Martinez (Miami) would be welcome.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9QFsMPrcqM


Another thing I wouldn't mind seeing is the addition of a fullback who can be that all-rounder in the backfield. And at the risk of getting @Corbin all lathered up by talking about a Michigan boy I'd say Bredeson would fit the bill as a late round addition:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WvzoEkxxFc


Power gets overlooked in its importance until you find yourself in a slugfest in a must-win game in the playoffs or a divisional matchup where both teams know each other's shit so well it's fugly. McVay has slowly trended to power too, in his scheme with the OL. So why not take the plunge.

 

[Loyal]

We have a power OL now who can move people pretty well. Kyren does a great job of beating the blown blocks and he's a slippery bastid in traffic but I'd like to see a power RB in this offense.

Keep saying it too. McVay loves him some passcatchy backs but his offense looks incredible with a power back. So a guy like Martinez (Miami) would be welcome.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9QFsMPrcqM


Another thing I wouldn't mind seeing is the addition of a fullback who can be that all-rounder in the backfield. And at the risk of getting @Corbin all lathered up by talking about a Michigan boy I'd say Bredeson would fit the bill as a late round addition:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WvzoEkxxFc


Power gets overlooked in its importance until you find yourself in a slugfest in a must-win game in the playoffs or a divisional matchup where both teams know each other's shit so well it's fugly. McVay has slowly trended to power too, in his scheme with the OL. So why not take the plunge.

I can play both ways... ~ Braden

 

[Corbin]

We have a power OL now who can move people pretty well. Kyren does a great job of beating the blown blocks and he's a slippery bastid in traffic but I'd like to see a power RB in this offense.

Keep saying it too. McVay loves him some passcatchy backs but his offense looks incredible with a power back. So a guy like Martinez (Miami) would be welcome.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9QFsMPrcqM


Another thing I wouldn't mind seeing is the addition of a fullback who can be that all-rounder in the backfield. And at the risk of getting @Corbin all lathered up by talking about a Michigan boy I'd say Bredeson would fit the bill as a late round addition:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WvzoEkxxFc


Power gets overlooked in its importance until you find yourself in a slugfest in a must-win game in the playoffs or a divisional matchup where both teams know each other's shit so well it's fugly. McVay has slowly trended to power too, in his scheme with the OL. So why not take the plunge.

Absolutely no fucking way we ever add a FB with McVay. Not saying I don’t agree with you, Im telling you, he’d be like our version of the tush push.

 

[OldSchool]

We have a power OL now who can move people pretty well. Kyren does a great job of beating the blown blocks and he's a slippery bastid in traffic but I'd like to see a power RB in this offense.

Keep saying it too. McVay loves him some passcatchy backs but his offense looks incredible with a power back. So a guy like Martinez (Miami) would be welcome.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9QFsMPrcqM


Another thing I wouldn't mind seeing is the addition of a fullback who can be that all-rounder in the backfield. And at the risk of getting @Corbin all lathered up by talking about a Michigan boy I'd say Bredeson would fit the bill as a late round addition:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WvzoEkxxFc


Power gets overlooked in its importance until you find yourself in a slugfest in a must-win game in the playoffs or a divisional matchup where both teams know each other's shit so well it's fugly. McVay has slowly trended to power too, in his scheme with the OL. So why not take the plunge.

The ever present pre draft FB discussion

 

[blackbart]

Numbers do lie. I will happily demonstrate. Stats over the past two seasons:
Tua Tagovailoa
679/959
70.8%
7491 passing yards
7.8 YPA
48 passing TDs
21 Ints
101.2 passer rating

Baker Mayfield
723/1072
67.4%
7964 passing yards
7.4 YPA
62 passing TDs
25 Ints
98.8 passer rating

Brock Purdy
581/864
67.2%
7767 passing yards
9.0 YPA
48 passing TDs
21 Ints
104.0 passer rating

Matthew Stafford
649/1006
64.5%
7538 passing yards
7.5 YPA
44 passing TDs
19 Ints
93.8 passer rating

If numbers don't lie, Stafford is the worst of these four QBs. Yet, I'd take Stafford over every single one of these other QBs for our game on Saturday. Wouldn't you?

It's both, as I just said. Kyren is good at it, but it's situational. If you play for a crappy offense that rarely gets inside the five, you're going to have less TDs than a worse HB on a top offense that gets a lot of carries inside the five. If you have a HC who prefers to throw the ball or run the QB most of the time inside the five, you're going to have less running TDs than an equally good HB on an equally good offense whose coach prefers to run the ball with the HB inside the five.

It is a situational stat. Skill plays a role, but opportunity plays a bigger role. Gurley went from 6 total TDs in 2016 to 19 totals TD in 2017 and 21 total TDs in 2018 because our offense improved immensely under McVay, not because Gurley suddenly got better at scoring TDs.

We're unlikely to be in a position to draft Jeanty (and I'm not trading up for a HB in the first round), but I'd pick Jeanty. He reminds me of prime Marshawn Lynch. Incredible talent.

This is a great HB draft. There are some very intriguing guys on late Day 2 and Day 3. I'd grab one. Never hurts to have cheap HB depth, and it'll help to have options if Kyren's contract demands are more than we'll pay.

Yeah ok cherry picking numbers to make your point. Good show

 

[jrry32]

We have a power OL now who can move people pretty well. Kyren does a great job of beating the blown blocks and he's a slippery bastid in traffic but I'd like to see a power RB in this offense.

Keep saying it too. McVay loves him some passcatchy backs but his offense looks incredible with a power back. So a guy like Martinez (Miami) would be welcome.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9QFsMPrcqM


Another thing I wouldn't mind seeing is the addition of a fullback who can be that all-rounder in the backfield. And at the risk of getting @Corbin all lathered up by talking about a Michigan boy I'd say Bredeson would fit the bill as a late round addition:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WvzoEkxxFc


Power gets overlooked in its importance until you find yourself in a slugfest in a must-win game in the playoffs or a divisional matchup where both teams know each other's shit so well it's fugly. McVay has slowly trended to power too, in his scheme with the OL. So why not take the plunge.

Fortunately, there are a good number of power HBs in this Draft. Even a guy like Cam Skattebo, who seems more McVay's speed based on his history, runs very hard. Jonah Coleman is another short power HB. I wouldn't be surprised if McVay loves Kyle Monangai, though.

 

[TexasRam]

PFF numbers for 2024:

Receiving: Henry 73.0 (11th) / Kyren 53.2 (45th)

Pass Block: Henry 67.0 (10th) / Kyren 38.9 (39th)

At the combine 40 yard dash: Henry 4.52 / Kyren 4.65
Henry's time is same as Tony Pollard & Nick Chubb, faster than Kamara & Aaron Jones.

Breakaway yards %: Henry 39.3 (5th) / Kyren 8.8 (53rd)
This means 39.3% of Henry's yards have been gained on runs of 15+ yards. Only 8.8% of Kyren's.
Kyren has a lot of 3 - 14 yard runs while Henry has a lot of 15+ yard runs.

Overall 2024: Henry 93.5 (1st) / Kyren 69.1 (33rd)
YPC: Henry 5.8 / Kyren 4.1
Henry runs behind the 19th (64.3) rated run blocking OL, Kyren runs behind the 4th (77.1) rated.

Maybe because he's 250 lbs. Henry's athleticism gets overlooked?
Henry is a first ballot HOFer playing at the highest level.
I would take him on the Rams in a heartbeat. It would be game changing for the offense.

Henry's cap hit this year is just $5mil. Next year it will be $11mil.
Kyren plays for basically $1mil this year and next - we hope (holdout possible?)

Like everyone else - just my opinion.

PFF is one source. I would argue the weakest of all.

ESPN has the Ravens as #3 in Run Block win Rate.

Profootball Focus also has the Ravens as the #3 Oline.

Then there is the obvious. A defense has to worry about Lamar Jackson at all times.

Oline Rankings

Stumbled across this article. Not sure if it has been posted or referenced but shows some interesting things. The offensive line metric (OL+) they use combines pressure and sack rate stats with time-to-throw data then adds in ESPN Pass Block (PBWR) and Run Block Win Rate (RBWR) stats. A Few...

ramsondemand.com

Henry is more explosive but I think a solid arguement can be made for Kyren being more consistently efficient, down in and down out. Given the weaker Oline and no Jackson to deal with.

 

[rdlkgliders]

PFF numbers for 2024:

Receiving: Henry 73.0 (11th) / Kyren 53.2 (45th)

Pass Block: Henry 67.0 (10th) / Kyren 38.9 (39th)

At the combine 40 yard dash: Henry 4.52 / Kyren 4.65
Henry's time is same as Tony Pollard & Nick Chubb, faster than Kamara & Aaron Jones.

Breakaway yards %: Henry 39.3 (5th) / Kyren 8.8 (53rd)
This means 39.3% of Henry's yards have been gained on runs of 15+ yards. Only 8.8% of Kyren's.
Kyren has a lot of 3 - 14 yard runs while Henry has a lot of 15+ yard runs.

Overall 2024: Henry 93.5 (1st) / Kyren 69.1 (33rd)
YPC: Henry 5.8 / Kyren 4.1
Henry runs behind the 19th (64.3) rated run blocking OL, Kyren runs behind the 4th (77.1) rated.

Maybe because he's 250 lbs. Henry's athleticism gets overlooked?
Henry is a first ballot HOFer playing at the highest level.
I would take him on the Rams in a heartbeat. It would be game changing for the offense.

Henry's cap hit this year is just $5mil. Next year it will be $11mil.
Kyren plays for basically $1mil this year and next - we hope (holdout possible?)

Like everyone else - just my opinion.

Henry is in a different class as a pure runner than KW.
Henry is the closest I have seen to ED in a long time.

 

[blackbart]

PFF numbers for 2024:

Receiving: Henry 73.0 (11th) / Kyren 53.2 (45th)

Pass Block: Henry 67.0 (10th) / Kyren 38.9 (39th)

At the combine 40 yard dash: Henry 4.52 / Kyren 4.65
Henry's time is same as Tony Pollard & Nick Chubb, faster than Kamara & Aaron Jones.

Breakaway yards %: Henry 39.3 (5th) / Kyren 8.8 (53rd)
This means 39.3% of Henry's yards have been gained on runs of 15+ yards. Only 8.8% of Kyren's.
Kyren has a lot of 3 - 14 yard runs while Henry has a lot of 15+ yard runs.

Overall 2024: Henry 93.5 (1st) / Kyren 69.1 (33rd)
YPC: Henry 5.8 / Kyren 4.1
Henry runs behind the 19th (64.3) rated run blocking OL, Kyren runs behind the 4th (77.1) rated.

Maybe because he's 250 lbs. Henry's athleticism gets overlooked?
Henry is a first ballot HOFer playing at the highest level.
I would take him on the Rams in a heartbeat. It would be game changing for the offense.

Henry's cap hit this year is just $5mil. Next year it will be $11mil.
Kyren plays for basically $1mil this year and next - we hope (holdout possible?)

Like everyone else - just my opinion.

The Ravens OL and running game in general is the best in the league. You can’t really compare Henry’s production versus the shit show we had with the OL most of this season.

How did Henry look last year in Tennessee?

 

[fanotodd]

PFF numbers for 2024:

Receiving: Henry 73.0 (11th) / Kyren 53.2 (45th)

Pass Block: Henry 67.0 (10th) / Kyren 38.9 (39th)

At the combine 40 yard dash: Henry 4.52 / Kyren 4.65
Henry's time is same as Tony Pollard & Nick Chubb, faster than Kamara & Aaron Jones.

Breakaway yards %: Henry 39.3 (5th) / Kyren 8.8 (53rd)
This means 39.3% of Henry's yards have been gained on runs of 15+ yards. Only 8.8% of Kyren's.
Kyren has a lot of 3 - 14 yard runs while Henry has a lot of 15+ yard runs.

Overall 2024: Henry 93.5 (1st) / Kyren 69.1 (33rd)
YPC: Henry 5.8 / Kyren 4.1
Henry runs behind the 19th (64.3) rated run blocking OL, Kyren runs behind the 4th (77.1) rated.

Maybe because he's 250 lbs. Henry's athleticism gets overlooked?
Henry is a first ballot HOFer playing at the highest level.
I would take him on the Rams in a heartbeat. It would be game changing for the offense.

Henry's cap hit this year is just $5mil. Next year it will be $11mil.
Kyren plays for basically $1mil this year and next - we hope (holdout possible?)

Like everyone else - just my opinion.

I get it. It’s not worth getting into a knockdown drag out about and we are just talking.

Having said that. I don’t consider combine numbers relevant in this conversation. These guys have been in the league long enough that college numbers, accolades don’t carry much weight with me.

Where Henry would be better for the Rams would require a slight shift in philosophy—the more power oriented approach @Merlin is advocating.

I’m not gonna die on a hill that says KW cannot be improved or replaced, but he’s a fantastic fit for the Rams in ALL regards. I’m not so sure a guy who happens to average less than a yard per carry more or runs slightly faster, or is a bigger version, is automatically gonna make the Rams better. Knowing exactly who that guy is who will be an upgrade (and cheaper than re-signing KW) is not as easy as looking at the stat sheet.

Now if the Rams find themselves in a financial pickle over KW because he’s asking for a ton of $$…there is such a thing as pricing yourself out of a job. Drafting insurance is also a reality, but making a KW upgrade a priority is outright lunacy.

 

[TSFH Fan]

More Fullback?


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5v2MNUyzY00