Its Goff time

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jrry32 said:
I edited that out maybe 10 seconds after I posted it. You quoted my post before I edited it. It was heat of the moment. Which I tried to explain in another edit...but you quoted my post before I could make that edit. :p
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It's cool. We're good. I enjoy the debates.

Whether we see the play the same way or not, you have to agree that Keenum isn't the only QB who makes a few bad throws during a game. I mean, we've seen it happen against us with Palmer and Wilson (multiple times), and Jameis, and Bridgewater, and so on and so on. I agree that a better QB would have made a better throw, but I still think the receiver's execution there would have resulted in a pick anyway. That said, I don't think velocity was needed there. Just better timing and a cleaner route. I've seen Keenum make some throws on out routes that were good, so it's not like he's incapable of making them. I think that's an unfair stance to take. QBs who can't execute a simple out-route don't become NFL QBs in any capacity.

All that said, I'm ready to see if Goff is ready now. And not because Keenum's arm is weak (it's really not). I'm ready to see Goff because it's becoming too myopic around here now. Every single throw Keenum makes is going to become scrutinized, and this board is going to suffer as a result. You remember what that was like on RRF with the Bradford detractors, right? I really don't want to see this board go down that route. So, let's see if everyone is right. I'm curious. And I won't hammer him when he makes bad throws too. It's just not cool.
 
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jrry32 said:
Are you trying to tell me that a WR isn't supposed to roll 2 yards from the breakdown point to their line coming out of the break on a speed cut?
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The depth adjustment is on the stick not the break.
 
Rambo said:
I agree Cooper ran a bad route. When you have a defender behind you and to your inside you dont keep running straight out, you adjust and try to block the defender from getting to your inside and making an interception. It was still a bad pass though.
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That's doable on a hard angle break. It's just not doable on a speed cut. If the defender undercuts it, he's got position because you're not breaking towards the QB. There's an argument that Cooper could have done more. But it was tough for him when his momentum is carrying him in the opposite direction.
 
The only thing I've noticed missing in the debate is that a proper out pattern is not just cut perpendicular, the WR always must work back toward the line of scrimmage after the cut. Rams receivers don't seem to do the little things like that, perhaps they are still wrestling with the bigger concepts. But those little things add up -- like when the ball was overthrown to Quick and he just jogged out the incompletion like no big deal, versus the Bills WR that laid himself out in a full dive trying desperately to grab an overthrow. Ya maybe it was in vain, but it made a statement, too.

Anyway, that all doesn't change the blame of this pick, in my opinion:
#1 on it a bad play call (not matching our QB's strengths)
#2 on the QB.
WR is a distant #3.
 
tavian said:
The depth adjustment is on the stick not the break.
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We're not talking about the depth adjustment on the route. We're talking about the speed cut here. There was a 2-yard transition from where he broke down to where he got on his line coming out of the break. That is correct.
 
jrry32 said:
We're not talking about the depth adjustment on the route. We're talking about the speed cut here. There was a 2-yard transition from where he broke down to where he got on his line coming out of the break. That is correct.
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done JRRY .let it go
 
-X- said:
It's cool. We're good. I enjoy the debates.

Whether we see the play the same way or not, you have to agree that Keenum isn't the only QB who makes a few bad throws during a game. I mean, we've seen it happen against us with Palmer and Wilson (multiple times), and Jameis, and Bridgewater, and so on and so on. I agree that a better QB would have made a better throw, but I still think the receiver's execution there would have resulted in a pick anyway. That said, I don't think velocity was needed there. Just better timing and a cleaner route. I've seen Keenum make some throws on out routes that were good, so it's not like he's incapable of making them. I think that's an unfair stance to take. QBs who can't execute a simple out-route don't become NFL QBs in any capacity.

All that said, I'm ready to see if Goff is ready now. And not because Keenum's arm is weak (it's really not). I'm ready to see Goff because it's becoming too myopic around here now. Every single throw Keenum makes is going to become scrutinized, and this board is going to suffer as a result. You remember what that was like on RRF with the Bradford detractors, right? I really don't want to see this board go down that route. So, let's see if everyone is right. I'm curious. And I won't hammer him when he makes bad throws too. It's just not cool.
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Yes. That is true.

However, this wasn't a simple out route. It was a difficult concept. The pick is going to force the CB to under-cut the intermediate out. It's already a tough throw to make. That makes it an even more difficult throw in terms of placement. Then again, that CB probably under-cuts it on the play whether there's a pick or not.

I'll probably hammer Goff during the game for bad throws.
 
soooo.......now that the route molecules have been dissected......what are the odds we see Goff?
 
Picked4td said:
its hard to know for sure what going on with the limited view you get watching the game, but Keenum's reluctance to throw the ball downfield on those last 2 drives was pretty sad. Especially the last drive where there was literally nothing to lose by throwing it downfield. Its not a good sign when even Keenum doesnt trust his arm.
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If his lack of throwing down field was restricted to this game that would be one thing, but it's not. This is Case Keenum! He will not throw down the field when he has the choice to throw it short. If all routes were medium and long with no check downs, I don't know what he would do, A) take a sack, B) throw it away, C) run, D) punt. Throwing it down filed is not an option. At least Goff will throw the threads off the ball if that's what it takes to get it down field.
 
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Ramfansince79 said:
If you want to know why its not Goff time, watch a replay of the Broncos game. Lynch got crushed about 100 times and looked exactly like the never played under center rookie he is. The difference is Goff would go on IR. He's not ready physically for the NFL yet.
Get over it and support Case K.
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EXACTLY RIGHT..............:yess:
 
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jrry32 said:
I'll probably hammer Goff during the game for bad throws.
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That would also be unfair though. He's going to have them early on, and everyone should expect that and give that a pass (no pun intended).
Once he gets into a rhythm and establishes a rapport with the receivers, the amount of those are certain to diminish.
 
-X- said:
That would also be unfair though. He's going to have them early on, and everyone should expect that and give that a pass (no pun intended).
Once he gets into a rhythm and establishes a rapport with the receivers, the amount of those are certain to diminish.
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I don't like losing...and I'm not very rational when I'm angry during Rams games.
 
-X- said:
It just surprised me that you would say that to me is all. I thought we had more respect for each other.
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You have been nasty and condesending to many here with your Keenum devotion -- you Have verbally attacked me, and today Old School, and last week you set off Jeff - maybe you should tske a break and reassess your approach here

Anyway, it's classic to see you kiss ass to Jrry - HaHa
 
-X- said:
It's cool. We're good. I enjoy the debates.

Whether we see the play the same way or not, you have to agree that Keenum isn't the only QB who makes a few bad throws during a game. I mean, we've seen it happen against us with Palmer and Wilson (multiple times), and Jameis, and Bridgewater, and so on and so on. I agree that a better QB would have made a better throw, but I still think the receiver's execution there would have resulted in a pick anyway. That said, I don't think velocity was needed there. Just better timing and a cleaner route. I've seen Keenum make some throws on out routes that were good, so it's not like he's incapable of making them. I think that's an unfair stance to take. QBs who can't execute a simple out-route don't become NFL QBs in any capacity.

All that said, I'm ready to see if Goff is ready now. And not because Keenum's arm is weak (it's really not). I'm ready to see Goff because it's becoming too myopic around here now. Every single throw Keenum makes is going to become scrutinized, and this board is going to suffer as a result. You remember what that was like on RRF with the Bradford detractors, right? I really don't want to see this board go down that route. So, let's see if everyone is right. I'm curious. And I won't hammer him when he makes bad throws too. It's just not cool.
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You mean.....even if it kills em? :cautious: I still don't believe this OL can protect a rookie.
By appearances, his ability to take a blast in the chest on the order Bradford or Kessler took today is highly suspect, IMO.
 
Goff's arm talent is badly needed. Watching Keenum throw outside the hashes is rough. He needs a clean pocket and the ball still hangs, he can't drive it like you want. Makes it hard for the WR's to have any YAC when 2-3 defenders can start running to the ball while it's in flight. Also, Goff's legs are underrated. I hope he's ready to use them, but he could be dangerous, he's a nice athlete himself.
 
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ramsince62 said:
You mean.....even if it kills em? :cautious: I still don't believe this OL can protect a rookie.
By appearances, his ability to take a blast in the chest on the order Bradford or Kessler took today is highly suspect, IMO.
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Definitely a concern of mine too. There were too many jailbreaks in this game for my liking.
Hopefully, if they do start Goff, they decide to move the pocket more. Because that interior is suspect.

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