Goff vs Wentz. Will it be flexed?

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LACHAMP46 said:
Not really....Goff has some skill...We have a lot of talent. I think 7-9 should be the goal (for first 16 games)....and a 2017 record of 7-2
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dieterbrock said:
7-9 is doable, will be interesting to see how the numbers play out.
Interesting comparison, not a be all end all by any stretch.
I like Wentz a lot. And I hate the Eagles a whole lot. But I liked McNabb and was able to find a happy medium, will try and repeat that with CW.
Of course I naturally pull for the guys wearing horns but truly believe Goff will be right there with Wentz when he has comparative experience
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Through their first 14 games? Exact same record yet Wentz is supposed to be a winner that Goff isn't. So even with the abomination of a team that the Rams 2016 was Goff has matched Wentz. I'm very curious to see how he does the rest of this year without his Pro Bowl LT. Hope people don't make excuses for him for missing Peters.
 
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dieterbrock said:
I think his ability in the pocket is Brady/Montana-esque
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I wish I had that PFF....and the ALL-22

I would love to see what's his passing %%% when he has a clean pocket.

I would love to see what's his passing %% with no pressure.

I would love to see what's his passing %%% on deep throws.

I can't see certain things from the TV....I don't know who's open when he throws an in-completion in the redzone...or if anyone is open. I just know..much like Kurt Cousins last night...we have trouble down there. I find it hard to believe we can move the ball at will between the 20's....and nothing goes right...a high percentage of the time...when we get in the red zone.
I keep thinking Cousins, Ryan, and Dalton....good players....but when they get into tough situations...just good players.
I wish we'd have gotten that winner.
 
OldSchool said:
Exact same record yet Wentz is supposed to be a winner that Goff isn't. So even with the abomination of a team that the Rams 2016 was Goff has matched Wentz.
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We were 3-1 last year...I wouldn't call that team an abomination....I thought we were a playoff team then...I think we're a playoff team now. I think the coaching was horrible...Boras leading the way...followed by Boudreau. And a bunch in that offensive staff. And I still think we shoulda won more than 4 games. Hell, we lost to the 9ers twice!!!!
Wentz lost Lane Johnson the RT last year (a better player ATM than Peters, IMO)...and suffered....Something tells me, he planned for this...and has an answer.

Goff isn't a winner....you holding on to that quote, huh? He hasn't really won at any level after HS. The 2 games when the TEAM basically didn't win it, the ones to prove he IS a winner...he couldn't...or hasn't...He's a good player...but, put the team on his back? Pick up the defense? Pick up the teammate that fumbles? WR drops game winning pass on 3rd down....what does he do on 4th? Give the team a chance to win??? Nope, forces it to the same wr...with a terrible throw.
 
LACHAMP46 said:
We were 3-1 last year...I wouldn't call that team an abomination....I thought we were a playoff team then...I think we're a playoff team now. I think the coaching was horrible...Boras leading the way...followed by Boudreau. And a bunch in that offensive staff. And I still think we shoulda won more than 4 games. Hell, we lost to the 9ers twice!!!!
Wentz lost Lane Johnson the RT last year (a better player ATM than Peters, IMO)...and suffered....Something tells me, he planned for this...and has an answer.

Goff isn't a winner....you holding on to that quote, huh? He hasn't really won at any level after HS. The 2 games when the TEAM basically didn't win it, the ones to prove he IS a winner...he couldn't...or hasn't...He's a good player...but, put the team on his back? Pick up the defense? Pick up the teammate that fumbles? WR drops game winning pass on 3rd down....what does he do on 4th? Give the team a chance to win??? Nope, forces it to the same wr...with a terrible throw.
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If you would like go back into those GDT and you can see what my comments were. Or I can tell you exactly what I was saying. That it was good to win but it was unsustainable because we had no offense and unless we developed one we were bound to fall on our faces. Oh yeah we had the worst offense in the league and fell on our face.

Lane Johnson is an unknown at this point at LT he's never played there in the pro's. He's gotten better each year as a RT and is solid there but LT we don't know and even if he does play well at LT that just moves the question mark to RT where there are some good pass rushers. Either way unless they have an all pro on their bench or they trade for GRob their going to have a very sizable decrease in OLine play. Peters may be declining but he's still one of the best LT in the game.

As for the winning for a QB I've told you dozens of times but I can tell you again. Win-Loss record being attributed solely to a QB is the most idiotic thing ever in the NFL. It's just stupid to assign a teams victory or defeat to one player when there are 46 playing each game. As for Goff not being a winner that's your call not mine. Each of the last 2 level's he's made his teams better. Cal got better each year. Rams so far this year are better. Next year we'll see where it goes. If you think Goff does nothing to help this team win then sorry we must be watching different games. I see a guy leading his team. He hasn't had to put the team on his back and carry them the team around him is good enough that their winning with a balanced good team.

How btw did Wentz do in their one loss? Doesn't look like he put the team on his back and carried them to victory. Three drives in the 4th quarter that started KC up by 3. First drive he goes down on a nice drive and failed in the red zone and settled for a field goal to tie the game. Next drive he throws an interception which KC takes advantage of and scores a TD to go up 20-13. Wentz the winner has to pick his team up and lead them to a victory right? Nah unfortunately he goes 3 and out. Down by a TD with 6 minutes left in the game he can't lead his team to victory. Alex Smith though on the next drive leads his team down to extend the lead with another TD! BOOM 2 touchdown lead with 2:20 left in the game. Wentz then takes advantage of the prevent defense and leads them down to a TD but it's too little too late. He scores with 8 seconds left in the game and failed to lead his team. Wentz in their one loss threw a 4th quarter interception that cost his team a chance at victory. Kind of sounds like your criticism's of Jared doesn't it :D

Now before you get your panties in a bunch I think Carson Wentz is a hell of a QB and would have been perfectly happy with the Rams drafting him though with Fisher the first year Wentz would have struggled just as much as Goff. I think they're both exceptional young QB's but vastly different QB's. That difference doesn't make either one better or worse than the other. I merely pointed out this 4th quarter to once again point out that assigning QB value and quality based off win and loss records is idiotic. That 4th quarter summation doesn't tell us what happened the rest of the game. It doesn't mention any other contributing factors. I just spun a situation like many people do so that I could lay the blame for the loss at Carson's feet. He's a good young QB that is going to get better. Jared is a good young QB that is getting better. They're going to be competing for a very long time, we hope! Neither team regrets drafting them, but it seems some Rams fans can't be happy with their young QB. I know for a fact there are Eagles fans that aren't happy with Wentz they think he could be better.
 
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LACHAMP46 said:
db, you know the game....letting these types of players pass you by in the draft can come back to bite you...Goff is probably good....Wentz is probably special...
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And with your track record with regards to evaluating Rams players (GROB, Quicky, etc), we wouldn't have it any other way!!! :rimshot:
 
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OldSchool said:
If you would like go back into those GDT and you can see what my comments were. Or I can tell you exactly what I was saying. That it was good to win but it was unsustainable because we had no offense and unless we developed one we were bound to fall on our faces. Oh yeah we had the worst offense in the league and fell on our face.

Lane Johnson is an unknown at this point at LT he's never played there in the pro's. He's gotten better each year as a RT and is solid there but LT we don't know and even if he does play well at LT that just moves the question mark to RT where there are some good pass rushers. Either way unless they have an all pro on their bench or they trade for GRob their going to have a very sizable decrease in OLine play. Peters may be declining but he's still one of the best LT in the game.

As for the winning for a QB I've told you dozens of times but I can tell you again. Win-Loss record being attributed solely to a QB is the most idiotic thing ever in the NFL. It's just stupid to assign a teams victory or defeat to one player when there are 46 playing each game. As for Goff not being a winner that's your call not mine. Each of the last 2 level's he's made his teams better. Cal got better each year. Rams so far this year are better. Next year we'll see where it goes. If you think Goff does nothing to help this team win then sorry we must be watching different games. I see a guy leading his team. He hasn't had to put the team on his back and carry them the team around him is good enough that their winning with a balanced good team.

How btw did Wentz do in their one loss? Doesn't look like he put the team on his back and carried them to victory. Three drives in the 4th quarter that started KC up by 3. First drive he goes down on a nice drive and failed in the red zone and settled for a field goal to tie the game. Next drive he throws an interception which KC takes advantage of and scores a TD to go up 20-13. Wentz the winner has to pick his team up and lead them to a victory right? Nah unfortunately he goes 3 and out. Down by a TD with 6 minutes left in the game he can't lead his team to victory. Alex Smith though on the next drive leads his team down to extend the lead with another TD! BOOM 2 touchdown lead with 2:20 left in the game. Wentz then takes advantage of the prevent defense and leads them down to a TD but it's too little too late. He scores with 8 seconds left in the game and failed to lead his team. Wentz in their one loss threw a 4th quarter interception that cost his team a chance at victory. Kind of sounds like your criticism's of Jared doesn't it :D

Now before you get your panties in a bunch I think Carson Wentz is a hell of a QB and would have been perfectly happy with the Rams drafting him though with Fisher the first year Wentz would have struggled just as much as Goff. I think they're both exceptional young QB's but vastly different QB's. That difference doesn't make either one better or worse than the other. I merely pointed out this 4th quarter to once again point out that assigning QB value and quality based off win and loss records is idiotic. That 4th quarter summation doesn't tell us what happened the rest of the game. It doesn't mention any other contributing factors. I just spun a situation like many people do so that I could lay the blame for the loss at Carson's feet. He's a good young QB that is going to get better. Jared is a good young QB that is getting better. They're going to be competing for a very long time, we hope! Neither team regrets drafting them, but it seems some Rams fans can't be happy with their young QB. I know for a fact there are Eagles fans that aren't happy with Wentz they think he could be better.
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Nice job..Kudos for also keeping it a full 3 paragraphs shorter than War and Peace... (which also is a good read btw)...
 
Anybody watching Wentz can see he's good, and (maybe) is going to get much better.
But I thank the powers that be every day that we took Goff.
And it is (almost) totally subjective.

I just like what I consider the "IT" factor that Goff possesses, that Wentz doesn't appear to, imo. Wentz has all the tools, the size, the arm and and and, but he looks to me like a guy that was always the most athletic dude on the field, and was groomed to be, or 'made' into a QB. He just looks mechanical. I also think he holds the ball to long, (maybe due partly to the fact that in the back of his mind, he's always thinking he can run). At this point though, his long ball is way better than Goff's.

Goff seems like a guy that was born a QB. His demeanor and attitude going through what he did last year never changed, and hasn't changed this year either, with his success. He just turned 23, and by all appearances, is respected by and the leader of a team full of grown men.
He's 7 weeks into a new system to Wentz's 19, and flat playing way better now than CW at the same point last year. Anyway, just some (very subjective) thoughts.
 
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OldSchool said:
As for the winning for a QB I've told you dozens of times but I can tell you again. Win-Loss record being attributed solely to a QB is the most idiotic thing ever in the NFL. It's just stupid to assign a teams victory or defeat to one player when there are 46 playing each game. As for Goff not being a winner that's your call not mine. Each of the last 2 level's he's made his teams better. Cal got better each year. Rams so far this year are better. Next year we'll see where it goes. If you think Goff does nothing to help this team win then sorry we must be watching different games. I see a guy leading his team.
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QB's control winning and losing...more so than any other position...sorta like goalie...it's a team game...but one player can actually make up for the bad play of others on the team...Qb...because every offensive snap they can, and usually do touch the ball.
Too much blame...maybe...too much praise, probably...but it's there...So, I didn't blame the losses on Goff, I just believe he could have controlled the outcome, no matter who was doing what during the game.

Made Cal better? Or played an easier schedule? I keep thinking this Cal Bears squads were terrible, but every time I look, there are a couple pros from Cal...when Goff played. but they were "awful"....ok

Goff does something to help us win....mostly by not turning the ball over...and getting it to Gurley....the thing that does get my draws in a bunch is the ease with which we move the ball 20 to 20, only to struggle in the red zone. which I do blame on the QB. why? because the line is blocking decently, and we have weapons.

OldSchool said:
How btw did Wentz do in their one loss? Doesn't look like he put the team on his back and carried them to victory. Three drives in the 4th quarter that started KC up by 3. First drive he goes down on a nice drive and failed in the red zone and settled for a field goal to tie the game. Next drive he throws an interception which KC takes advantage of and scores a TD to go up 20-13. Wentz the winner has to pick his team up and lead them to a victory right? Nah unfortunately he goes 3 and out. Down by a TD with 6 minutes left in the game he can't lead his team to victory. Alex Smith though on the next drive leads his team down to extend the lead with another TD! BOOM 2 touchdown lead with 2:20 left in the game. Wentz then takes advantage of the prevent defense and leads them down to a TD but it's too little too late. He scores with 8 seconds left in the game and failed to lead his team. Wentz in their one loss threw a 4th quarter interception that cost his team a chance at victory. Kind of sounds like your criticism's of Jared doesn't it
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Yes it does....and in my assessment, Wentz failed to win the game...and contributed to the loss...Which I would say he "lost" the game. It wasn't too hard to say that...It was the truth. Guess what, no skin of his back either....Seems as if he's gotten better.

I'm happy for our young QB...to go from awful to good is awesome....but guess what? Much like you pointed out last season, it's not sustainable. The failures in the red zone are becoming huge. Is it scheme, I doubt it. Talent, in a sense, yes, because we are targeting the wrong players sometimes.....and, this is where this all leads to, to win this division, we'll need to get significantly better in execution in the red zone. Against BETTER teams. Indy isn't on the schedule anymore...

This team is improved because Sean McVay knows what the hell he's doing....So does Son of Bum.....And it's apparent that Snead does as well, because this team is loaded with talent.

Do we just wanna win a few games? If so, be ecstatic...we've arrived! Do we want to reach the playoffs? If so, be happy, we have a shot at the playoffs. Do we wanna compete for a championship? If so, be concerned, because we've been trending down since week 3....I like the yards...it's the execution in the smaller windows of the red zone.
 
That 10 minute drive was an absolute thing of beauty. You can tell that Goff is soaking up what Mcvay is teaching him.

I ended up watching one of the Eagle games in preparation for a Ram opponent. I'm not sure exactly who it was...I think it was the Cardinals now that I look at the Eagles schedule.

But I was surprised how little Wentz is under center. That was a huge knock on Goff and here we are with Goff going under center far more often than Wentz. I wasn't really focusing in on Wentz or the Eagles as I was watching the opponent. But it certainly seemed like Wentz spent very few snaps from center and most everything was in the gun.
 
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LACHAMP46 said:
QB's control winning and losing...more so than any other position...sorta like goalie...it's a team game...but one player can actually make up for the bad play of others on the team...Qb...because every offensive snap they can, and usually do touch the ball.
Too much blame...maybe...too much praise, probably...but it's there...So, I didn't blame the losses on Goff, I just believe he could have controlled the outcome, no matter who was doing what during the game.

Made Cal better? Or played an easier schedule? I keep thinking this Cal Bears squads were terrible, but every time I look, there are a couple pros from Cal...when Goff played. but they were "awful"....ok

Goff does something to help us win....mostly by not turning the ball over...and getting it to Gurley....the thing that does get my draws in a bunch is the ease with which we move the ball 20 to 20, only to struggle in the red zone. which I do blame on the QB. why? because the line is blocking decently, and we have weapons.

Yes it does....and in my assessment, Wentz failed to win the game...and contributed to the loss...Which I would say he "lost" the game. It wasn't too hard to say that...It was the truth. Guess what, no skin of his back either....Seems as if he's gotten better.

I'm happy for our young QB...to go from awful to good is awesome....but guess what? Much like you pointed out last season, it's not sustainable. The failures in the red zone are becoming huge. Is it scheme, I doubt it. Talent, in a sense, yes, because we are targeting the wrong players sometimes.....and, this is where this all leads to, to win this division, we'll need to get significantly better in execution in the red zone. Against BETTER teams. Indy isn't on the schedule anymore...

This team is improved because Sean McVay knows what the hell he's doing....So does Son of Bum.....And it's apparent that Snead does as well, because this team is loaded with talent.

Do we just wanna win a few games? If so, be ecstatic...we've arrived! Do we want to reach the playoffs? If so, be happy, we have a shot at the playoffs. Do we wanna compete for a championship? If so, be concerned, because we've been trending down since week 3....I like the yards...it's the execution in the smaller windows of the red zone.
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Dude, you're fucking kidding right? You're so hard on for Wentz you can't even imagine that Goff is turning out to be a good QB and the Rams are turning out to be a good team? This team is finding different ways to win, they're doing exactly what good teams do, winning even if they aren't firing on all cylinders. That's going to happen, especially with a young team. We're trending up in a big way, and everyone seems to notice it but you. We're not getting Wentz, and Goff is a good QB and a great fit for our team. Deal with it man, it's getting old dude, it's just getting fucking old.

Enjoy the fact we're 5-2.
 
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LACHAMP46 said:
Made Cal better? Or played an easier schedule? I keep thinking this Cal Bears squads were terrible, but every time I look, there are a couple pros from Cal...when Goff played. but they were "awful"....ok
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Let's play a little game called "Name the 2013-15 Cal Bears currently starting in the NFL," and I'll go first:
Jared Goff

Your turn. :LOL:
 
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OC_Ram said:
I disagree. I honestly believe that 1 year under his belt with this playbook is going to create a higher level of comfort for the young man. That is where I think we'll see "big dividends."
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I agree, in 2018, he will be great!
 
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