Baseball 2017

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I don't think he gets traded but that's just me. You have a new ownership group coming in with Jordan and Jeter as the faces of the group and they need a marquee player. If you trade Stanton you lose that. You're not going to get a big haul for him unless you pay a bunch of his salary. If you do that then why trade him. To me it just doesn't make sense.
 
OldSchool said:
I don't think he gets traded but that's just me. You have a new ownership group coming in with Jordan and Jeter as the faces of the group and they need a marquee player. If you trade Stanton you lose that. You're not going to get a big haul for him unless you pay a bunch of his salary. If you do that then why trade him. To me it just doesn't make sense.
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It might be the new ownership that is requesting the trade. The big $$ contracts rarely pay off for the team. Cardinals would be in deep shit if they paid Pujols the money he demanded. Stanton can always agree to accept less money or accept performance incentives if he wants to go elsewhere.
 
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bnw said:
It might be the new ownership that is requesting the trade. The big $$ contracts rarely pay off for the team. Cardinals would be in deep crap if they paid Pujols the money he demanded. Stanton can always agree to accept less money or accept performance incentives if he wants to go elsewhere.
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Honestly I can see them doing the Dodgers route of a rebuild. Buy some bad contracts that are expiring in a year or two to make you more viable right away while hiring a great front office guy to start building the farm system up. Right now the Marlins IIRC have one of the worst farm systems in baseball. Next step will be to hire away one of the top Execs assistants. Somebody like Epstein or Friedman will have a guy they're molding or teaching that will get a chance. They'll let Donny run the club for his contract then when it's up they'll replace him, mainly because he's terrible, and the rebuild will be complete in 5-6 years, would be faster if their farms were better right now.

But they need a name for the franchise that's why I think Stanton stays. If they had somebody in AAA that could take the role or if Fernandez hadn't died maybe they trade him. As is they need somebody to market.
 
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OldSchool said:
Honestly I can see them doing the Dodgers route of a rebuild. Buy some bad contracts that are expiring in a year or two to make you more viable right away while hiring a great front office guy to start building the farm system up. Right now the Marlins IIRC have one of the worst farm systems in baseball. Next step will be to hire away one of the top Execs assistants. Somebody like Epstein or Friedman will have a guy they're molding or teaching that will get a chance. They'll let Donny run the club for his contract then when it's up they'll replace him, mainly because he's terrible, and the rebuild will be complete in 5-6 years, would be faster if their farms were better right now.

But they need a name for the franchise that's why I think Stanton stays. If they had somebody in AAA that could take the role or if Fernandez hadn't died maybe they trade him. As is they need somebody to market.
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I don't get the "name for a franchise" thing. I suppose that is the same thing as the "face" of the franchise? Given free agency it is rare for a player to stay with a team long enough to be identified as such. Winning baseball is what matters. Winning will always fill the seats and over time develop a culture that expects excellence. A small market team like the Marlins would be better off fielding a good product rather than over paying for a "name" on a subpar team. Buying the "name" player is the modus operandi of the Yankees.....simply because they can afford to be stupid. Same for the Angels. Same for any team that gets an incredible amount of cash through local broadcast deals. Otherwise its an emphasis upon the farm system where multi-season value can be added to the big league roster and upon contract time trade bait if necessary. Poaching front office talent only goes so far since developing a top notch farm system takes time and a strong long term......and these days global commitment.
 
bnw said:
I don't get the "name for a franchise" thing. I suppose that is the same thing as the "face" of the franchise? Given free agency it is rare for a player to stay with a team long enough to be identified as such. Winning baseball is what matters. Winning will always fill the seats and over time develop a culture that expects excellence. A small market team like the Marlins would be better off fielding a good product rather than over paying for a "name" on a subpar team. Buying the "name" player is the modus operandi of the Yankees.....simply because they can afford to be stupid. Same for the Angels. Same for any team that gets an incredible amount of cash through local broadcast deals. Otherwise its an emphasis upon the farm system where multi-season value can be added to the big league roster and upon contract time trade bait if necessary. Poaching front office talent only goes so far since developing a top notch farm system takes time and a strong long term......and these days global commitment.
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Winning doesnt always fill seats in Florida. Tampa has consistently put a competitive team on the field and there attendance bites. Miami had some really good teams with "big names" from 2003 -2008 and never drew 2M. There best year during that stretch was 1.8M.

IMO Im not sure Florida is not a fit for baseball or at that very least not a fit for 2 teams. There are lots of transplants down there who are fans of other teams. If you combined both Florida teams last year in total attendance they would of finished 8th in MLB.

I guess my point is Im not sure there is a quick fix to driving attendance. Sports can be fickle and sometimes you need to put a generation of time into long term success. For example, let a generation of kids grow up rooting for a team and eventually there kids will be fans and so on. Fans tend to be loyal, so it takes time to build that base. I always said that about St Louis with the Rams. Most older fans I bet were Cardinal fans and stayed Cardinal fans, meaning this younger generation of Ram fans needed to have kids lol.
 
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Boston Ram said:
Winning doesnt always fill seats in Florida. Tampa has consistently put a competitive team on the field and there attendance bites. Miami had some really good teams with "big names" from 2003 -2008 and never drew 2M. There best year during that stretch was 1.8M.

IMO Im not sure Florida is not a fit for baseball or at that very least not a fit for 2 teams. There are lots of transplants down there who are fans of other teams. If you combined both Florida teams last year in total attendance they would of finished 8th in MLB.

I guess my point is Im not sure there is a quick fix to driving attendance. Sports can be fickle and sometimes you need to put a generation of time into long term success. For example, let a generation of kids grow up rooting for a team and eventually there kids will be fans and so on. Fans tend to be loyal, so it takes time to build that base. I always said that about St Louis with the Rams. Most older fans I bet were Cardinal fans and stayed Cardinal fans, meaning this younger generation of Ram fans needed to have kids lol.
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They are a small market team. Where are the 3 million supposed to come from? Cuba? Miami is at the bottom of the peninsula that is the state of FL. The Tampa Bay Devil Rays territory is between Atlanta and Miami. The state also hosts Spring Training for half of MLB. Plus in South FL many people are fans of teams outside of FL.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/FLA/attend.shtml
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/rays3.shtml
 
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bnw said:
They are a small market team. Where are the 3 million supposed to come from? Cuba? Miami is at the bottom of the peninsula that is the state of FL. The Tampa Bay Devil Rays territory is between Atlanta and Miami. The state also hosts Spring Training for half of MLB. Plus in South FL many people are fans of teams outside of FL.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/FLA/attend.shtml
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/rays3.shtml
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I think you are agreeing with me......

I will say this though, I will never understand the small market label. Both Miami and Tampa individually have a higher population than St Louis but St Louis got 3M last year.
 
Boston Ram said:
I think you are agreeing with me......

I will say this though, I will never understand the small market label. Both Miami and Tampa individually have a higher population than St Louis but St Louis got 3M last year.
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Perhaps I can help you. What is the population of St. Louis, MO?

BTW, St. Louis has drawn at least 3 million more often than not over the past 30 years.
 
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Boston Ram said:
Winning doesnt always fill seats in Florida. Tampa has consistently put a competitive team on the field and there attendance bites. Miami had some really good teams with "big names" from 2003 -2008 and never drew 2M. There best year during that stretch was 1.8M.

IMO Im not sure Florida is not a fit for baseball or at that very least not a fit for 2 teams. There are lots of transplants down there who are fans of other teams. If you combined both Florida teams last year in total attendance they would of finished 8th in MLB.

I guess my point is Im not sure there is a quick fix to driving attendance. Sports can be fickle and sometimes you need to put a generation of time into long term success. For example, let a generation of kids grow up rooting for a team and eventually there kids will be fans and so on. Fans tend to be loyal, so it takes time to build that base. I always said that about St Louis with the Rams. Most older fans I bet were Cardinal fans and stayed Cardinal fans, meaning this younger generation of Ram fans needed to have kids lol.
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And with Tampa they are guaranteed 20 games against the Red Sox and Yankees, still have low attendance
 
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Boston Ram said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population

311K
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Exactly what I thought. That is the mistake. It is difficult for people to understand since the situation is unique.

Officially St. Louis, MO is The City of St. Louis. It is a county in state government. This is because back in the 1870s or'80s the city didn't want anything to do with the outlying areas surrounding it due to double taxation. The city drew a line around itself beyond which it would not expand. At the time the money and power was within the city and the city was the 4th largest in the US. Over time the city expanded up to its border and beyond but the beyond was comprised of small municipalities within a different county.......St. Louis County.

In reality St. Louis, MO is the City of St. Louis and St. Louis County. Together the population is 1.3 million and falling. Population is also moving from St.Louis County to surrounding counties. The 1.3 is just on the MO side. If you include the east side then the metro area has a population of nearly 3 million.

The Cardinals draw extremely well throughout the midwest and south since for many years they were the westernmost and southernmost team in MLB. The extent of their radio network was unsurpassed. Today MLB rigidly enforces the extent of the radio affiliates (although I see the Cardinals network includes two stations in Hawaii). Years ago I worked at a radio station in east TN and we still received many calls from people wanting the Cardinals back on local radio.
 
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bnw said:
Exactly what I thought. That is the mistake. It is difficult for people to understand since the situation is unique.

Officially St. Louis, MO is The City of St. Louis. It is a county in state government. This is because back in the 1870s or'80s the city didn't want anything to do with the outlying areas surrounding it due to double taxation. The city drew a line around itself beyond which it would not expand. At the time the money and power was within the city and the city was the 4th largest in the US. Over time the city expanded up to its border and beyond but the beyond was comprised of small municipalities within a different county.......St. Louis County.

In reality St. Louis, MO is the City of St. Louis and St. Louis County. Together the population is 1.3 million and falling. Population is also moving from St.Louis County to surrounding counties. The 1.3 is just on the MO side. If you include the east side then the metro area has a population of nearly 3 million.

The Cardinals draw extremely well throughout the midwest and south since for many years they were the westernmost and southernmost team in MLB. The extent of their radio network was unsurpassed. Today MLB rigidly enforces the extent of the radio affiliates (although I see the Cardinals network includes two stations in Hawaii). Years ago I worked at a radio station in east TN and we still received many calls from people wanting the Cardinals back on local radio.
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Your best best for finding a population is to look at what they call CSA, combined statistical area. For St Louis they call it this :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_St._Louis#Combined_Statistical_Area

A population base of 2.9 million roughly. By contrast they have Miami's CSA at 6.7 million and Tampa doesn't have a CSA at 3 million for the metropolitan population. Los Angeles at 18.7 and New York leading at 23.7. Those can be broken down in the cast of 2 team cities though some are already broken down.
 
OldSchool said:
Your best best for finding a population is to look at what they call CSA, combined statistical area. For St Louis they call it this :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_St._Louis#Combined_Statistical_Area

A population base of 2.9 million roughly. By contrast they have Miami's CSA at 6.7 million and Tampa doesn't have a CSA at 3 million for the metropolitan population. Los Angeles at 18.7 and New York leading at 23.7. Those can be broken down in the cast of 2 team cities though some are already broken down.
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6.7 million? I'm shocked. What a piss poor baseball market.:poop:
 
OldSchool said:

View: https://twitter.com/AnthonyDiComo/status/898758757081006080


It seems the Dodgers have traded for Grandy and cash for a player to be named and/or cash. I can't help but feel this is the first of a couple moves. We likely are moving Joc and prospects for something else though I really don't know what that would be.
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Dam is this April fools?! That would be a nice trade. Peterson is just regressing and appears he is not able to adjust to the big league game.

I hope we don't give up any prospects. The dodgers have enough offense, it's going to come down Tony he starting pitching. Wood, Hill and Darvish need to go in the playoffs hot.
 
Granderson and cash considerations for a player to be named and/or cash considerations. Granderson is a free agent after the season the Mets must've just not wanted to pay the last month of his $15 million salary. My guess is Joc goes to AAA to get regular AB while Grandy splits CF time with Taylor/Kike`
 
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