Baltimore Burning....

[Prime Time]

This thread is headed for a locking. It's the same old, same old. Stop with the "I'm not a racist/oh yes you are" comments, even if it's just hinted at. There are both good people and jerks in every race and every profession.

 

[bluecoconuts]

Seems like the adults and very young (kids) are the only civil ones out there.

The morons look like teenagers and those in their 20s that haven't grown up yet.

What's crazy is the real adults have actually, legitimately been victims of racism, segregation, and violence. These days a guy does a criminal action (running from a cop) and suddenly the cop is in the wrong.

I heard it was mostly high schoolers throwing rocks and stuff at cops.

I remember kids used to throw rocks at our vehicles coming out of the FOB in Iraq. They could crack our armored glass, which is a big issue. Also could injure the gunners.

I shot warning shots at their feet once, and shot their soccer ball. They didn't stop throwing rocks at other units, but they stopped and sat down whenever our platoon rolled out. Those little bastards knew my face and would scowl at me when we drove by while I gave them the finger.




In all seriousness, the kids taking part in this are stupid.

 

[Athos]

I'm not going to start off my next sentence with "I'm sorry, but..." b/c I firmly believe this and not apologizing for my beliefs. I have NEVER dealt with a dick cop. Ever. WHy? Because I followed his instructions. He/she has the authority, and I don't see why people are so against that. Especially when its people committing crimes.

Just curious. Are you white? Because literally EVERY friend I've had in life that isn't white has been suspected of something/looked over by law enforcement as though they've done something wrong, or other such run-ins that I, being white, most certainly would not have been subjected to.

Cops are law ENFORCEMENT, after all. When you resist, run away, etc. you just escalate things.

And the US also wasn't founded on being a police state where officers get to be the judge, jury, and obviously, the executioner.

Watching the news today and there is a radio guy from Baltimore talking about this built up anger in the black community, about there being tensions between police and young black men....blah, blah, blah. So, he is just justifying violence and destruction. The reporter, being the lemming she is, just stands there and says nothing, questions nothing.

Well, I dunno what to say if you don't believe there has been and may always be tension between minorities and law enforcement until whites become the minority. Imagine the tune we'll be singing then.

And you have to remember that there are perfectly reasonable people out there protesting without the harmful actions/effects. Problem is with protests, especially in the modern age, you'll always have fuckers trying to make it about themselves / using it to their advantage to do evil so they have an excuse.

 

[VegasRam]

This thread is headed for a locking. It's the same old, same old. Stop with the "I'm not a racist/oh yes you are" comments, even if it's just hinted at. There are both good people and jerks in every race and every profession.

Have to disagree - there are no bad Architects, all you need to do is look around...:huh:

...oh wait. alm:

 

[VegasRam]

Why wouldn't he had just said, "there's no reasoning with rioters" then? Is it because that's a rhetorical question? Hmm... Let's see then. What else do "these people" have in common with the ones in Ferguson?

Sigh.. Anyway. I'm done for now. Have a good evening.

For the record, I agree 100% with both your views on both race-relations AND cops. Just trying to be a benefit-of-the-doubt peacekeeper.

(And btw, I meant grab a Triscuit - forgot who I was talking to).

 

[fearsomefour]

Just curious. Are you white? Because literally EVERY friend I've had in life that isn't white has been suspected of something/looked over by law enforcement as though they've done something wrong, or other such run-ins that I, being white, most certainly would not have been subjected to.



And the US also wasn't founded on being a police state where officers get to be the judge, jury, and obviously, the executioner.



Well, I dunno what to say if you don't believe there has been and may always be tension between minorities and law enforcement until whites become the minority. Imagine the tune we'll be singing then.


And you have to remember that there are perfectly reasonable people out there protesting without the harmful actions/effects. Problem is with protests, especially in the modern age, you'll always have fuckers trying to make it about themselves / using it to their advantage to do evil so they have an excuse.

I am sure there are tensions.
What is BS to me is using that as a justification for criminal behavior and violence.
It is shameful that this group of morons prevents any real progress being made.

 

[RAMSinLA]

I've been thinking about this mess in Baltimore and I'm trying to think of an event that would cause me to go out and plunder and pillage my own community and I can't come up with anything.

I think many of the rioters (not all but many) are in the streets because of their own bigotry towards law enforcement deserved or undeserved. They don't know Freddie Grey and they are not there for him.

Many are only out for what they can get from stores. They are nothing short of thieves. I worked at a record store in Los Angeles when the LA riots got out of control and that store was broken into. They took everything that wasn't nailed down. The owner closed his doors and moved away and I lost my job.

There will be many hard working folks that will lose everything because of this. If it's justice that one seeks burning down the city is not the way to get it.

 

[RAMSinLA]

View attachment 6121 This Woman deserves " Mother of the Year Award" After spotting her Kid rioting, she grabbed him up smacked him around, and dragged his ass home!! "Go Mom!!

If that were my son I would go into his closet and cut the hoods off of every one of his sweatshirts; then I would show him pictures of other Americans that have taken up the practice of covering their faces and wearing hoods...like the KKK.

 

[VegasRam]

Hope this thread stays open.

 

[Ramhusker]

I can't help but think the moral of the story is seemingly lost on all of these violent protests over the past several years. Some common denominator other than race is the rap sheet all these victims always seem to have on their resume. From Trayvon Martin to Freddie Gray, it's almost always the same story. Seems we are always trying to treat a symptom rather than cure the cause. And the opportunists are always out in force to muddy the waters and fan the flames with agendas that range from some kind of racial equality to the formation of a national police force. Seems these "uprisings" are more and more orchestrated as a way to a means.

 

[Angry Ram]

Just curious. Are you white? Because literally EVERY friend I've had in life that isn't white has been suspected of something/looked over by law enforcement as though they've done something wrong, or other such run-ins that I, being white, most certainly would not have been subjected to.

No, I'm of Indian (India) heritage. Never had to worry about cops beating me b/c I'm a law abiding citizen. One time, it was chilly out and I was taking a walk in my neighborhood with a hoodie on. A police officer was in his car down the street from me. And....nothing happened. Hell, I even waved at the guy and he waved back lol.

And the US also wasn't founded on being a police state where officers get to be the judge, jury, and obviously, the executioner.

Absolutely agree with that. The U.S. was also founded on law and order, too.

don't have time to discuss this right now, but you're still drastically underestimating the amount of corruption, and crappy law enforcement in America. We can talk about corrupt judges, and government officials after that too. Should be fun. 90% of the time people try to take a position of power in this country, they're not someone that should have it. Then 50% of those people get elected, or hired.

Now we're getting political and that's not what I'm trying to say. I'm saying those breaking the law need to be held accountable and police shouldn't get blasted when they enforce said law. But at the same time I'm not denying corruption, I just don't believe it exists at the rate it's made out to be. I truly think the majority of individual police officers are good, and deserve respect.

 

[Mackeyser]

I don't care about rap sheets, per se. I care about guys getting dead for petty offenses.

By the way, I only brought up the stalker as an example of why one would not blindly do as any officer said. However, for anyone to assert "well, I never had a problem with police, so it must be those people messing up" is galactically ignorant. Willfully so. Ever heard of "Stop and Frisk"? Have you ever been thrown to the ground, assaulted, cuffed, sat in the curb for hours, yelled at, threatened... And then let go all because the cops are allowed to do that randomly? Then had it done multiple times a year where you are late to work, daycare, school or catching your last train home? Cuz if not, then rather than deny it, learn about the reality, cuz it happens. Rodney King happened and a little reefer didn't justify that world class ass-beating. This stuff happens FAR MORE often than most folks understand and it's only now with cellphone cams that we see it. But it's always been real whether anyone wants to willfully ignore it or not.

I care about the police truly upholding the law which means KNOWING the law. It is a scandal how misinformed MANY LEOs are on laws they are actively enforcing. I can understand officers not knowing laws governing Securities, but too many don't know basic laws as pertain to their current enforcement mandate as well as their "rules of engagement" Most importantly how they can effectively enforce the laws and meet various jurisdictional goals without violating the Constitution or the rights of any victims or potential accused.

The problem is that too many police seem to have forgotten that their job is Hard and it's a duty that's part of the public trust.

Get another one if respecting the rights of ALL citizens is too damn hard. Period. I'm under no obligation to fellate every Barney Fife because he wears a badge.

Respect is EARNED.

And I shouldn't have to say one thing about the idiot rioters.

Here's the difference for me: we can restock and repair a CVS and replace a few cars. We can't replace the dead person who's ending in police custody precipitated these events. So the big thing for me is NOT that idiots are looting a CVS, but rather that on several occasions, the police have apparently murdered citizens and covered it up under false pretenses.

Police murdering citizens, however rare, is MASSIVELY more important to me than idiot looters, who now thanks to hi-def cameras will likely be caught and go to jail for what amounts to less than $50 worth of crap they could carry.

So, peace and safety to those in the affected areas. Here's hoping and praying that cooler heads prevail and the conversation can be brought back to community restoration and justice for the remaining citizens of that community who seem to have a legitimate grievance.

What's missing in all this isn't guns or toughness or jobs...

It's wisdom and grace. We not only used to have it, but we used to care about those both enough to aspire to them. Now, it feels like we're one mega-storm from Thunderdome...

 

[bluecoconuts]

I can't help but think the moral of the story is seemingly lost on all of these violent protests over the past several years. Some common denominator other than race is the rap sheet all these victims always seem to have on their resume. From Trayvon Martin to Freddie Gray, it's almost always the same story. Seems we are always trying to treat a symptom rather than cure the cause. And the opportunists are always out in force to muddy the waters and fan the flames with agendas that range from some kind of racial equality to the formation of a national police force. Seems these "uprisings" are more and more orchestrated as a way to a means.

Did Trayvon Martin have a rap sheet? I remember some people putting the wrong picture of another kid that was more "thuggish" but I don't remember anything about a wrap sheet.

Either way, while I agree that most/all of the people in these situations have criminal histories, that doesn't mean they should have been killed. Things like resisting arrest, shouldn't result in being shot. There are cases like with Brown where I feel the officer was likely justified, and there are cases like (South Carolina?) where a guy is shot running away, or (Nebraska?) where the volunteer accidentally shot and killed a guy instead of going for his taser (having held both, you really shouldn't make that mistake, that guy is a fucking moron)...

I don't think it's an officer problem, I think it's a training problem. There are (mostly) good guys that are put in these situations and they make the wrong call. Honestly I feel that having a high number of combat veterans is adding to this problem, and I say this as a combat veteran. I see from a lot of friends who have gone into the police force, there's a high number of vets who carry the same attitude as a police officer that they did as a grunt. It's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6, it's us versus them. While I definitely would rather a police officer go home to his family than a criminal, when you add that to the "us vs them" mentality it can be dangerous.

An us vs them attitude is good when in the military, your job is to defeat and destroy the enemy either through direct combat or support of direct combat troops. It is you vs the enemy. With police though, your job is to serve and protect the community. Us vs them isn't good. Us vs them makes you shoot quicker, and shoot when you shouldn't shoot.

Better training to help guys break away from the us vs them mentality. We shouldn't expect criminals to be smart, but we shouldn't lower the standards for our officers. It's a tricky situation for sure, cops need to be able to protect themselves, but we can't have people, even criminals, being killed over petty crimes.

 

[VegasRam]

When exactly did "we used to care about these ideals" that are now gone.

Care to name a year?
Or when it was exactly that they dusappeared?

Or what they were, exactly?

Police have been murdering citizens for centuries, my friend. Corruption has been (and still is) rampant for centuries. I suspect injustice has been around awhile as well. There's this cross thingy with a man on it to remind us. I guess I'm saying we really don't need another lecture/dissertation every time some numb nut abuses his/her power yet again.

What I WOULD like to see once, is some reaction, or even awareness from the Twitterworld and Face-o-Rama set that you are all being played, but of course being so cool and current, y'all just flat aren't remotely aware that it's even happening. Which that's OK since you're going to be the one's dealing with it all

 

[Ramhusker]

Did Trayvon Martin have a rap sheet? I remember some people putting the wrong picture of another kid that was more "thuggish" but I don't remember anything about a wrap sheet.

Either way, while I agree that most/all of the people in these situations have criminal histories, that doesn't mean they should have been killed. Things like resisting arrest, shouldn't result in being shot. There are cases like with Brown where I feel the officer was likely justified, and there are cases like (South Carolina?) where a guy is shot running away, or (Nebraska?) where the volunteer accidentally shot and killed a guy instead of going for his taser (having held both, you really shouldn't make that mistake, that guy is a freaking moron)...

I don't think it's an officer problem, I think it's a training problem. There are (mostly) good guys that are put in these situations and they make the wrong call. Honestly I feel that having a high number of combat veterans is adding to this problem, and I say this as a combat veteran. I see from a lot of friends who have gone into the police force, there's a high number of vets who carry the same attitude as a police officer that they did as a grunt. It's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6, it's us versus them. While I definitely would rather a police officer go home to his family than a criminal, when you add that to the "us vs them" mentality it can be dangerous.

An us vs them attitude is good when in the military, your job is to defeat and destroy the enemy either through direct combat or support of direct combat troops. It is you vs the enemy. With police though, your job is to serve and protect the community. Us vs them isn't good. Us vs them makes you shoot quicker, and shoot when you shouldn't shoot.

Better training to help guys break away from the us vs them mentality. We shouldn't expect criminals to be smart, but we shouldn't lower the standards for our officers. It's a tricky situation for sure, cops need to be able to protect themselves, but we can't have people, even criminals, being killed over petty crimes.

Yeah, I guess I kinda used the term loosely. Getting busted with weed at school, suspensions from school, caught in the possession of burglary tools and punching the bus driver are not exactly heavy duty wrap sheet bullet items but it kinda was painting the same picture in my mind. And going all the way back to the Rodney King thing, it would serve truth justice for one to read into that one a touch. That gentle giant was jacked up on some good stuff that day and what we saw on TV was the tail end of that encounter with the law.

Our law enforcement is far from perfect, just like our healthcare and justice system as a whole but it doesn't help when some bona fide idiots are out there fanning the flames instead of offering up viable solutions.
http://conservativetribune.com/black-mayor-baltimore-outrageous-statement-race-rioters/

 

[Faceplant]

What always gets lost in these situations is what people have alluded to already in this thread. The handling of and subsequent death of a young man (in this case Freddie Gray). There ARE shitty cops out there. There IS injustice and racism that still permeates a lot of LEO precincts. Anyone who does not acknowledge these things is burying their head in the sand. The problem as I see it is that the people who peacefully protest and/or work towards a solution to these problems have their hard work and efforts literally burned to the ground by the ignorant, POS rioters and looters that couldn't give a shit less about the underlying issues. It is THOSE images that people will remember. It is THAT kind of behavior that weakens communities further and damages race relations more and more. Unfortunately, it is a recurring theme nowadays, and just as there are shitty cops always looking to over enforce their powers, there are always asshole thugs looking for any reason or excuse to burn, steal and destroy.....and usually in their own damn back yard. You cannot fix stupid.

 

[fearsomefour]

Whether someone has a rap sheet or prior arrest history does not and should not matter when discussing abuse by police. It is not their job to pass judgement and execute punishment.
Whether someone is mistreated by the police does not justify violent and criminal behavior.
Corruption and abusive behavior by Police being much worse other places does not make what does happen here better. And one person experiences, whether good or bad, don't reflect the whole bigger picture.
These are all connected yet separate issues.
One thing that is generally true is all organizations have an interest in self protection. The police investigation police shootings is comical to me.

 

[Ramrasta]

We need to understand that both the rioters and police are human beings. They are all unique individuals with both good and bad among them because that's the nature of the human race. There will never be a perfect system with human beings involved. We also have to realize how fortunate we are in America and that the function of the police in this country is effective overall. We could live in a country like Venezuela, where the "police" can kill you for looking at them wrong and there is no consequence for them or public recognition for the lost.

The recent events in these communities have undoubtably been tragedies but lets not solve corruption and violence by justifying more corruption and violence. If our aim is to encourage change then we have to spread the knowledge that the pen is stronger than the knife.

 

[Ramhusker]

Oh my, this Gray guy may have just had back surgery from injuries sustained in a car accident just 10 days before his most recent encounter with the law? Why do people put themselves in risky situations when they are already in a vulnerable situation?

 

[Rynie]